Crime and Punishment
Moderator: Priests of Syrinx
I saw that and I had similar thoughts. I understand a family being sad at the loss of one of their own, even if that one is a murderer, but what the state did wasn't cruel; it was justice. 34 minutes isn't long to die. How long did it take his victims to die? I believe he shot them, but death is not always instant with a gun wound and even if it was, the fact remains that the state at least attempted to be kind in the way they put him to death. He had no thoughts of kindness or for the pain of his victims or the pain of his victims' families or the pain of his OWN family as a result of his behaviour.
Onward and Upward!
Okay, so how's this. A National Security Adviser steals classified documents and receives as his punishment: A fine of $50,000, 100 hours of community service and was barred from access to classified material for three years.
Barred from access to classified material for three years?
Hasn't he proven he is not trustable with our national documents? Do we really think that in three years he will behave any differently if put in the same position?
Barred from access to classified material for three years?
Hasn't he proven he is not trustable with our national documents? Do we really think that in three years he will behave any differently if put in the same position?
Onward and Upward!
Doesn't work I'm afraid.Xanadu wrote:Sex offenders should be spayed/neutered
I had to work very closely with this type of offender when I was employed in the Criminal Justice System in Scotland.
Unfortunately, the main motivation for this type of crime is about power, control and dominance and paradoxically very little to do with sex.If you castrate/neuter then believe me, they can still abuse (I really don't want to go into this in any more detail), and the desire to do so remains just as strong.
To all those who advocate the death penalty for this sort of thing, something to consider. As much as anyone, I find the very prospect of these people breathing the same oxygen as me repellent, but if you decree an arbitrary death penalty, then the mindset of the criminal goes into the "may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb" mode, and they will probably go further and kill their victim. You will also see an increase in the amount of offenders murdering to cover their tracks whereas before they may have left their victim alive afterwards.
I am certainly not suggesting that we should "go soft" on these people, but it is something to think about. What is beyond doubt however, is that they definitely need to be segregated from society. I don't buy this attitude that is so prevalent today that they can be rehabilitated. The concept is fine, but IMO, if there is the slightest risk they may re-offend then, we must err on the side of caution. The safety of our children in particular is too important to do otherwise.
I can give a rather harrowing real lfe example. Some years ago I as the acting health centre manager for one of Scotlands prisons. We had a prisoner who had seved nearly thirty years for a particularly nasty rape and murder, who was being considered for parole. When this happens, there are a number of people who must contribute to the report, myself being one of them. Unanimously, myself, the Psychologist, Social Worker, Medical Advisor, and caseworker all stated that this man was a danger and would almost certainly re-offend if released. The Parole board chose to ignore us (mainly due to the fact he had "found God") and released him on license.
Guess what? less than three months later he raped and murdered a sixteen year old girl and is now back inside as if nothing had happened.Even though this was some years ago, I still get very, very angry and sad that this needless tragedy was ever allowed to happen. That poor girl and her family were utterly failed by the Law in Scotland.
Anyway, sorry for the rambling post, just some musings on the subject.
Ach, if Dougie was here he'd tell you himself....
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Walkinghairball
- Posts: 25037
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:42 pm
- Location: In a rock an roll venue near you....as long as you are in the Pacific Northwest.
NBC News and news services
Updated: 1 hour, 17 minutes ago.
Former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, sentenced to death for his role in 148 killings in 1982, will have his sentence carried out by Sunday, NBC News reported Thursday. According to a U.S. military officer who spoke on condition of anonymity, Saddam will be hanged before the start of the Eid religious holiday, which begins at sundown Saturday.
The hanging could take place as early as Friday, NBC?s Richard Engel reported.
The U.S. military received a formal request from the Iraqi government to transfer Saddam to Iraqi authorities, NBC reported on Thursday, which is one of the final steps required before his execution. His sentence, handed down last month, ordered that he be hanged within 30 days.
Earlier Thursday, Saddam?s chief lawyer implored world leaders to prevent the United States from handing over the ousted leader to Iraqi authorities for execution, saying the former dictator should enjoy protection from his enemies as a ?prisoner of war.?
?According to the international conventions, it is forbidden to hand a prisoner of war to his adversary,? Saddam?s lawyer, Khalil al-Dulaimi, said in Amman, Jordan.
?I urge all the international and legal organizations, the United Nations secretary-general, the Arab League and all the leaders of the world to rapidly prevent the American administration from handing the president to the Iraqi authorities,? he told The Associated Press.
Meets with half-brothers
Saddam met with two of his half-brothers on Thursday and passed on personal messages to his family, a lawyer said.
Badie Aref, one of Saddam's lawyers, said the rare meeting with maternal half-brothers Sabawi and Watban Ibrahim Hassanal-Tikriti, who are in U.S. custody, was at the request of the ousted Iraqi leader and took place inside his heavily guarded prison cell in Baghdad.
Aref said Saddam was in very high spirits and had sensed ?something was happening relating to the sentence? when prison guards took away a small radio he had been given several months ago.
?He met Sabawi and Watban and gave them letters to his family in anticipation.... He is clearly unaware of the details of what is happening around him and prepared to give his life as a martyr to his country,? Aref told Reuters by telephone.
Updated: 1 hour, 17 minutes ago.
Former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, sentenced to death for his role in 148 killings in 1982, will have his sentence carried out by Sunday, NBC News reported Thursday. According to a U.S. military officer who spoke on condition of anonymity, Saddam will be hanged before the start of the Eid religious holiday, which begins at sundown Saturday.
The hanging could take place as early as Friday, NBC?s Richard Engel reported.
The U.S. military received a formal request from the Iraqi government to transfer Saddam to Iraqi authorities, NBC reported on Thursday, which is one of the final steps required before his execution. His sentence, handed down last month, ordered that he be hanged within 30 days.
Earlier Thursday, Saddam?s chief lawyer implored world leaders to prevent the United States from handing over the ousted leader to Iraqi authorities for execution, saying the former dictator should enjoy protection from his enemies as a ?prisoner of war.?
?According to the international conventions, it is forbidden to hand a prisoner of war to his adversary,? Saddam?s lawyer, Khalil al-Dulaimi, said in Amman, Jordan.
?I urge all the international and legal organizations, the United Nations secretary-general, the Arab League and all the leaders of the world to rapidly prevent the American administration from handing the president to the Iraqi authorities,? he told The Associated Press.
Meets with half-brothers
Saddam met with two of his half-brothers on Thursday and passed on personal messages to his family, a lawyer said.
Badie Aref, one of Saddam's lawyers, said the rare meeting with maternal half-brothers Sabawi and Watban Ibrahim Hassanal-Tikriti, who are in U.S. custody, was at the request of the ousted Iraqi leader and took place inside his heavily guarded prison cell in Baghdad.
Aref said Saddam was in very high spirits and had sensed ?something was happening relating to the sentence? when prison guards took away a small radio he had been given several months ago.
?He met Sabawi and Watban and gave them letters to his family in anticipation.... He is clearly unaware of the details of what is happening around him and prepared to give his life as a martyr to his country,? Aref told Reuters by telephone.
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At least he had something good to say before he died
He said: Do not hate as hate blinds you. Not exactly those words but that was the jist of it, to all people. For that I hope it was quick, not a long drawn out strangling with his legs flapping, toe curling gurgling sounds,
eyes bulging, blood ozzing out his ears etc.. just a quick nice clear and loud
snap.
He said: Do not hate as hate blinds you. Not exactly those words but that was the jist of it, to all people. For that I hope it was quick, not a long drawn out strangling with his legs flapping, toe curling gurgling sounds,
eyes bulging, blood ozzing out his ears etc.. just a quick nice clear and loud
snap.
When evil is allowed to compete with good, evil has an emotional populist appeal that wins out unless good men & women stand as a vanguard against abuse.
Sadam was not a just leader but neither are many,some still in power that are just as guilty of commiting crimes against humanity.
I had a horrific dream last night and woke the whole house up @ 11:30 with a blood curdling scream. I was lying at the bottom of the stairs my neck twisted and was trying to yell for help. Then I started to bang on the stairs when they started moving up and down and then a blanket that was on the wall started blowing as the strong winds of the gallows blew in
I have had bad dreams in the past but when it comes to spirits it scares the heck out of me. Kind of strange I figured it was just about the time he hung by the neck.
I had a horrific dream last night and woke the whole house up @ 11:30 with a blood curdling scream. I was lying at the bottom of the stairs my neck twisted and was trying to yell for help. Then I started to bang on the stairs when they started moving up and down and then a blanket that was on the wall started blowing as the strong winds of the gallows blew in
I have had bad dreams in the past but when it comes to spirits it scares the heck out of me. Kind of strange I figured it was just about the time he hung by the neck.When evil is allowed to compete with good, evil has an emotional populist appeal that wins out unless good men & women stand as a vanguard against abuse.
"In a dream, a vision of the night, when sound sleep falls on men, while they slumber in their beds, then He opens the ears of men, and seals their instruction, that he may turn aside from his conduct, and keep man from his pride; He keeps back his soul from the pit, and his life from passing over into Sheol."
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Walkinghairball
- Posts: 25037
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:42 pm
- Location: In a rock an roll venue near you....as long as you are in the Pacific Northwest.
Oh man, here's a guy that deserves his nuts fed to himself.
Man Held in Decapitation of Daughter, 4
By MIKE BAKER, Associated Press Writer
Sun Jan 14, 0:05 AM
RALEIGH, N.C. - A man suspected of decapitating his 4-year-old daughter and leaving the body for her mother to find in their suburban home was arrested in Washington, D.C., early Saturday, authorities said.
Investigators have not found any history of domestic or mental health problems at the home, and still have no leads as to a possible motive in the killing, said Clayton police Lt. Jon Gerrell.
Amber Violette told police Friday evening she had found her daughter, Katlin, with her head severed from her body, police said.
An "edged weapon" believe to have been used in the killing was found in the house, though Gerrell declined to give more details.
"This is devastating for the whole community as a whole, and it's the most horrific thing I've seen in 13 years of police work," said Sgt. S.P. Lapsley. "That a father could do this to his child, I just can't believe it."
John Patrick Violette's vehicle was found at Raleigh-Durham International Airport, and investigators learned he had taken a flight to Washington. Deputy U.S. marshals arrested the 37-year-old after police tracked his credit card to the hotel, Lapsley said.
Police said Violette, 37, would be held in Washington pending an extradition on a murder charge expected to be filed in Clayton, about 15 miles southeast of Raleigh. The U.S. Marshals Service said an extradition hearing is expected to be held Tuesday.
The mother is not a suspect in the investigation, and Lapsley said police don't expect to make any more arrests.
Police said John Violette quit his job at a home improvement store on Thursday, the News & Observer of Raleigh reported.
Lori McCreary, who lives across the street from the Violette home in Clayton, a suburb about 15 miles southeast of Raleigh, described the family as "very private, but normal."
"They went to church every Sunday. They just seemed like a very happy, normal couple," McCreary said. "This is just so very, very shocking and devastating."
WTF!
Man Held in Decapitation of Daughter, 4
By MIKE BAKER, Associated Press Writer
Sun Jan 14, 0:05 AM
RALEIGH, N.C. - A man suspected of decapitating his 4-year-old daughter and leaving the body for her mother to find in their suburban home was arrested in Washington, D.C., early Saturday, authorities said.
Investigators have not found any history of domestic or mental health problems at the home, and still have no leads as to a possible motive in the killing, said Clayton police Lt. Jon Gerrell.
Amber Violette told police Friday evening she had found her daughter, Katlin, with her head severed from her body, police said.
An "edged weapon" believe to have been used in the killing was found in the house, though Gerrell declined to give more details.
"This is devastating for the whole community as a whole, and it's the most horrific thing I've seen in 13 years of police work," said Sgt. S.P. Lapsley. "That a father could do this to his child, I just can't believe it."
John Patrick Violette's vehicle was found at Raleigh-Durham International Airport, and investigators learned he had taken a flight to Washington. Deputy U.S. marshals arrested the 37-year-old after police tracked his credit card to the hotel, Lapsley said.
Police said Violette, 37, would be held in Washington pending an extradition on a murder charge expected to be filed in Clayton, about 15 miles southeast of Raleigh. The U.S. Marshals Service said an extradition hearing is expected to be held Tuesday.
The mother is not a suspect in the investigation, and Lapsley said police don't expect to make any more arrests.
Police said John Violette quit his job at a home improvement store on Thursday, the News & Observer of Raleigh reported.
Lori McCreary, who lives across the street from the Violette home in Clayton, a suburb about 15 miles southeast of Raleigh, described the family as "very private, but normal."
"They went to church every Sunday. They just seemed like a very happy, normal couple," McCreary said. "This is just so very, very shocking and devastating."
WTF!
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Mr. Potatoe Head
- Posts: 1783
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You don't have to be sorry for enlighting us, quite the contrary.Fridge wrote:Doesn't work I'm afraid.Xanadu wrote:Sex offenders should be spayed/neutered
I had to work very closely with this type of offender when I was employed in the Criminal Justice System in Scotland.
Unfortunately, the main motivation for this type of crime is about power, control and dominance and paradoxically very little to do with sex.If you castrate/neuter then believe me, they can still abuse (I really don't want to go into this in any more detail), and the desire to do so remains just as strong.
To all those who advocate the death penalty for this sort of thing, something to consider. As much as anyone, I find the very prospect of these people breathing the same oxygen as me repellent, but if you decree an arbitrary death penalty, then the mindset of the criminal goes into the "may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb" mode, and they will probably go further and kill their victim. You will also see an increase in the amount of offenders murdering to cover their tracks whereas before they may have left their victim alive afterwards.
I am certainly not suggesting that we should "go soft" on these people, but it is something to think about. What is beyond doubt however, is that they definitely need to be segregated from society. I don't buy this attitude that is so prevalent today that they can be rehabilitated. The concept is fine, but IMO, if there is the slightest risk they may re-offend then, we must err on the side of caution. The safety of our children in particular is too important to do otherwise.
I can give a rather harrowing real lfe example. Some years ago I as the acting health centre manager for one of Scotlands prisons. We had a prisoner who had seved nearly thirty years for a particularly nasty rape and murder, who was being considered for parole. When this happens, there are a number of people who must contribute to the report, myself being one of them. Unanimously, myself, the Psychologist, Social Worker, Medical Advisor, and caseworker all stated that this man was a danger and would almost certainly re-offend if released. The Parole board chose to ignore us (mainly due to the fact he had "found God") and released him on license.
Guess what? less than three months later he raped and murdered a sixteen year old girl and is now back inside as if nothing had happened.Even though this was some years ago, I still get very, very angry and sad that this needless tragedy was ever allowed to happen. That poor girl and her family were utterly failed by the Law in Scotland.
Anyway, sorry for the rambling post, just some musings on the subject.
Thank You!
Nevertheless sorry about that sixteen year old girl, her family and what you had to go through because of it.
You know I have to hand it to Saddam. He took his like a man. Did not beg, no hood...bastard to the end. His brother and that other yo yo... <--Me wrote:Sadam was not a just leader but neither are many,some still in power that are just as guilty of commiting crimes against humanity.
I had a horrific dream last night and woke the whole house up @ 11:30 with a blood curdling scream. I was lying at the bottom of the stairs my neck twisted and was trying to yell for help. Then I started to bang on the stairs when they started moving up and down and then a blanket that was on the wall started blowing as the strong winds of the gallows blew in
git it... cried like little girls, begged not to die. what a couple of sissies.. can dish it out but can't take it.Happy 2015!