Anniversary of Hiroshima yet...

[Kares4Rush]

I was watching on the History Channel the anniversary of the dropping of the deadly bomb on Hiroshima...and then later Nagasaki.

I was upset, really at the futility of it (or non-futitlity as one may see--just the violence and I'm a super-wuss). Please, someone call me and tell me as I'm not a political animal as Elfdude, DA or Hair. I thought (back then) why not drop it (if you're gonna DO such a thing) on Tokyo? Why a small farming town of innocents? How does that prove glory? It proves POWER, for sure but as a non-military (most of my fam has served in the military proudly) person I couldn't understand the target...except to show what we COULD do? I'm not sure. My fa is out of town and he was there in charge of a German POW camp and knows alot more than I do.

However, unrelated (please bear with me as there is another unrelated point here) it brought back memories. I mean stuff I thought I "stuffed" for four years. I re-lived 9-11. Please don't yawn or say it's not an issue.

I was ENRAGED again at the arrogance of that day. These Super-Assholes using the freedoms they enjoy in this country to use it to their advantage to take us down. The futility (at least to ME--Maybe DA has a good explanation why my friends had to die) of it all. I'm ALL pissed off again. It won't go away!!! I've been good to those who suffered and have been to funerals and tried to do all the "good" things to make things better. But I CAN'T seem to forget it. When I least expect it all of a sudden Joey calling in desperation for the 105 floor comes back (no body was found) or seeing those towers come down and people running for their lives for no reason. The months of clean up and the heartache involved for my firefighter friends (Jim O'Connel saw his own captain decapitated!). I give money every year in hopes it will help in some small part.

I'm not sure what I'm saying here. I'm NOT happy about Iraq at all. I won't get into that. But the people in the "tube" in London (a friend of mine from London is visiting this week) didn't deserve it.

Dropping the bomb in Hiroshima/Nagasaki was something I had nothing to do with. I'm really upset it happened...just as a person who hates to see others die. Since I wasn't there I can't comment too much on it as it is now unfortunately part of History (See Rush song Manhattan Project) however I AM around for the BULLSHIT that is going on now. I'm sorry, DA, you challenge others with their point-blank opines but I don't see a solution from you (and I'm HOPING FOR A GOOD ONE SINCE I HATE VIOLENCE MYSELF).

I've been abused by an uncle by marriage when I was a child (yeah, Hair, they need more than TIME, BELIEVE ME--) , I've seen unspeakable violence in my own back yard with 9-11. Also my cousin was shot in the forehead entering a money exchange place as an amrored guard in a bad neighborhood in Chicago. I don't consider myself a barbarian but I am so angry at things beyond a normal person's comprehension sometimes even when I try and try and try to understand and be good.



Fuk'em is what I say sometimes. Please forgive me but I'm just not myself.


I'm not sure what this has to do with Hiroshima right now but I just get upset at shit especially when I can't do a damn thing about it!!!

[rushlight]

What do you want from him? I don't know if he could give you any answers. He was so angry and upset about the London bombings and I feared any attack in or nearest Wales. I feared for him and my other family. And he just couldn't understand (and neither could I) why the police had to shoot a man who they already had on the ground instead of taking him in for questioning. Was it paranoia or just because he looked like a terrorist and should be dealt with? I saw that with the Drug Enforcement Police and a 14 year old teenager who they claimed, tried to run down one of their own so they blew her brains out!

[Devil's Advocate]

I couldn't understand the target...except to show what we COULD do?

That's about the size of it. There was a military presence in Hiroshima, I believe - a naval facility of some kind, iirc. But the criteria for selecting the target specifically excluded places that had already been extensively bombed, such as Tokyo. Also, Hiroshima is surrounded by hills, which were expected to have a focussing effect on the blast.

I have heard it said that the Nagasaki bomb was dropped to see if it would work, being of a different design from the Hiroshima bomb.


We tend to forget that war crimes are committed by both sides in most conflicts, not merely by the side that ultimately loses.

Maybe DA has a good explanation why my friends had to die

No, not really. It seems to me that there is no good reason why anybody has to die.

...but I don't see a solution from you...

I'm not sure which issue you're referring to. But is it necessary for me to have a solution to a problem in order to recognise that others' proposed solutions won't work?

To take an inanely non-controversial example, if you were working on a crossword puzzle where a clue asked for an anagram of Fawlty Towers, and you suggested Monte Carlo Casino, would I need to know the right answer in order to see that that is the wrong answer?

[Soup4Rush]

The A bomb was used to stop WWII. The Japanese used suicide tatics to defend the outer islands and a bunch of Americans and her allies died as a result. Think of the casualities had we begun an all out invasion of the motherland. I would be willing to bet the civilian casualties would have been greater in a full scale invasion than at the hands of the two bombs, not to mention our own losses. Why we dropped the bombs where we did and not Toyko? my guess is loss of life. Hitting Toyko would have killed a great more deal of people. We did not what to annilate them, just get them to surrender. hence why we waited to drop the 2nd bomb. also before we get all fired up about Aug 6th, lets not forget December 7th, 1941 a date which will live in infamy.

[Walkinghairball]

As odd as it sounds... uncivilized, barbaric, murderous, all the above, it pretty much nails it. I saw a docu on the BOMBS on the History channel a while back, and I believe they were saying the same thing. Even with the targets picked, and damage inflicted, oddly it saved countless lives. Man that sounds so shitty. I really don't know how else to say it.

And even worse......................we should have done it Iraq....................things might be over. If the polititions of today, were involved in the policy of WWII, we would ALL be speaking German now.

I can't imagine how hard it will be for the world to learn Arabic, but I won't do it. If something doesn't happen to stop the mindless violence between radical Islam, and everyone that is not, the Chinese will surely mop us all up.

I hate all of this. Sometimes it has to happen. ........Don't hate me, please.

[Devil's Advocate]

Here is a document that includes, amongst other information, the short-list of proposed targets for the first a-bomb.

The criteria are also listed:

... possible targets possessing the following qualification: (1) they be important targets in a large urban area of more than three miles in diameter, (2) they be capable of being damaged effectively by a blast, and (3) they are unlikely to be attacked by next August.

Tokyo would be excluded by criterion #3, since it had already been extensively attacked when this document was written, in May. Minimising the casualties was certainly not a criterion, since one point in favour of targetting Kyoto (top of the short-list) was its high population.


Soup:

The A bomb was used to stop WWII

The first one, possibly. The argument that it did so with fewer casualties than would have occurred in a land invasion may well have merit - but it's an argument that applies only to the Hiroshima bomb. Nagasaki was a different matter.

...we waited to drop the 2nd bomb.

Not really.

Aug. 6th: Hiroshima bomb
Aug. 9th: Nagasaki bomb (3 days after Hiroshima)
Aug 14th: Japan surrenders. (5 days after Nagasaki)

If "we" were only giving them 3 days to take stock before dropping another bomb, there would've been a third bomb on the 12th.

[Kares4Rush]

Rushlight, please don't be mad at me. I was not using DA as a well, Devil's Advocate. I was very upset and enraged at the time. I probably should not have barfed my brains out on the site about such touchy subjects.

This site is full of sensitive and intelligent people. You and DA among them.

[Grandpa Grizz]

Love you, K4R! Hugs.

[by-tor]

The sad reality of it is, in war, people die. Now from where I sit, if I have to choose which side has to die, it's not going to be my side. A mainland invasion of Japan would have cost 10's of thousands of American lives (as well as 10's of thousands if not more of enemy lives). With the atomic bomb, we still caused the death's of our enemies, but saved all those American lives. We were at the end of almost four years of deadly war against two enemies who commited some of the worst crimes against humanity, and I for one am glad that we dropped the bombs instead of invading. One of the two had to be done, both would have killed many, but using the bomb saved Americans. Please note, I am and American, so I don't really look at from any other perspective other than thru the eyes of an American.

[awip2062]

I do know this much: the Japanese man who signed the peace treaty used to come to Tacoma, Washington and stay in the home of the American Admiral there when the treaty was signed. They became friends after the war. He saw what we did to his people and he was able to forgive and love those whom he could have held responsible.

[rushlight]

Rushlight, please don't be mad at me. I was not using DA as a well, Devil's Advocate. I was very upset and enraged at the time. I probably should not have barfed my brains out on the site about such touchy subjects.

This site is full of sensitive and intelligent people. You and DA among them.

To be honest, when I read some of your post and came across a few things directed at D.A., I was getting angry. I thought you were challenging him and demanding answers that only he would know. But I read more of your post and I saw the hurt and hell you went through. You were just a person letting out the hurt and anger you had bottled up inside. It's understandable.
I'm not angry at you. If you were in front of me, I would hug you. I do not like the Iraq war anymore than you do. I don't like the fact that many soldiers are dying and the situation hasn't been solved yet. But look at the wars throughout history such as the Vietnam War, WW1, and WW2.
If we had to save some lives, we had to sacrifice some lives. If there was some other way to handle a situation without resorting to violence, I'm sure they would have done so. I wish I had some answers for you but I'm sorry. I don't.

[Soup4Rush]

Going one step further from what I and By-tor said, how many of us would not be here had the bombs not been used? My grandfather was in the Navy on a destroyer towards the end of the war. His ship took kamakazi hits during the Iwo and Okinawa invasions. He could have very well died in a full scale invasion of the motherland. If Gramdpa died than ole Soupy ain't around here being all controversial and all. (keep quiet Leon ) Sick way of looking at things but I wonder how many people would be in my situation.

[awip2062]

Soup, I don't see your way of looking at this as sick, just as reality. I very likely would not be here either if things had gone differently in WWII.

[by-tor]

Please note, I am and American, so I don't really look at from any other perspective other than thru the eyes of an American.

I'd also like to add that I do not represent the view of all of America...I only represent my view.

Course, I am always right.

[awip2062]

Rednecks! *wink*