Economics, Humanity and Oil

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:04 am

I think there's more to it than that. At the risk of being over simplistic, we've known for quite some time that Iran is a zit in the middle east that eventually needs to be popped. We now have a presence on both sides of Iran that we never had previously, and it has allowed us so start putting on a little pressure.

Soup4Rush · Post by **Soup4Rush** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:12 am

and my Un PC response would be, lets turn Iran into a parking lot (with cruise missles and airplanes) and call it a day

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:23 am

I understand the sentiment, my friend. But I must look back to some important text from our Declaration of Independence...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.?That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,?That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

So, Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness are for all men, not just Americans. By helping the people of Afghanistan and Iraq abolish their oppressive governments and establish new ones, we're just following one of our founding documents. And we certainly had a national interest in doing it, which is a nice bonus.

And in the long run, there's the potential for far more benefit than would just come from leveling those countries or seizing their oilfields.

Yeah, it bugs me how we've been doing things in such a minimalist manner in Iraq. And if/when we do have to take on Iran, I sure hope we're willing to act more like we did in WW2... just fight to end it and win.

Soup4Rush · Post by **Soup4Rush** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:38 am

and that is where we disagree, I have always said they would rather live like they do. I honestly think they need someone (who is Islamic) to lord over them.

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:53 am

Soup4Rush wrote:and that is where we disagree, I have always said they would rather live like they do. I honestly think they need someone (who is Islamic) to lord over them.

I don't disagree that what they want and what I want in a government are likely different. But they're having elections. We're not choosing their leaders for them. Their new prime minister (or president, or whatever he's called) isn't a Christian. Chances are I wouldn't want to live under the government that Iraq has established for itself. But the people are voting and putting it together the way they want. And they've given themselves freedoms that they've never had before, rather than vote in another oppressive dictator. Wait... I didn't say that right. We don't give ourselves freedoms. Freedom is God-given, and tends to be removed my governments. And they're... aw, you know what I mean.

Anyway, I do remember the footage of that statue of Saddam coming down, and the townspeople people rejoicing and cheering and whapping the horizontal statue with their shoes. It was a good day for them and us.

Soup4Rush · Post by **Soup4Rush** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 1:14 pm

all I remember is the burning American flags, the dead American kids and $3 a gallon for gas.

too bad they could not fight for their own freedom like other countries throughout history have.

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:16 pm

Yeah, I know.

schuette · Post by **schuette** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:02 pm

although I really want Scotland to be independent I dont want to fight for it the way the IRA did......and I dont want Scotland to fight the way they did in the past...
the burning of the flag is nothing really...the $3 a gallon (which is a hell of a lot cheaper then what we pay) is nothing...it's the innocent lives that have been killed...thats what gets to me......and thats includes all nationalities...

Nunavuter · Post by **Nunavuter** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:44 pm

CygnusX1 wrote:Wake up Detroit! I think our savior has arrived!

Check this out! HHO "Water Fuel"!!!

http://livedigital.com/content/287275/

That report was seriously flawed. Indeed, it displays a level of gullibility that shocks me.

As DA pointed out earlier, the hydrogen gas that is utilized in powering the vehicle is derived from the water via electrolysis. The hydrogen must be "cracked' from the H2O.

Hydrogen fuel cells also operate on this principle.

Nature provides no free lunches. The energy extracted from the hydrogen is less than the energy required to crack the hydrogen from the water.

The good ol' second law of thermodynamics is the ultimate arbiter in this case.

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:09 am

My grampa built hisself a vehicle that dun runned on water. He dun called it a "row boat"!

Soup4Rush · Post by **Soup4Rush** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:34 am

schuette wrote:although I really want Scotland to be independent I dont want to fight for it the way the IRA did......and I dont want Scotland to fight the way they did in the past...
the burning of the flag is nothing really...the $3 a gallon (which is a hell of a lot cheaper then what we pay) is nothing...it's the innocent lives that have been killed...thats what gets to me......and thats includes all nationalities...

Every man dies, not every man really lives The burning of the American flag really pisses me off. People gave their life for this country and the flag is a symbol of this country and the personal sacrifices people have made to make this country free. The flag means a great deal to me and I take it personal when some ahole who never fought for the freedom to do what they want to do, ie burn the flag. and you are right about all nation's young people making the sacrifice for a free Iraq and Afghanistan. I hope they appreciate it but somehow I doubt they do.

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:47 am

The burning of the American flag really pisses me off. People gave their life for this country and the flag is a symbol of this country and the personal sacrifices people have made to make this country free. The flag means a great deal to me and I take it personal when some ahole who never fought for the freedom to do what they want to do, ie burn the flag.

I love being around vets!

Hmm... maybe saying "I'm honored" would be better.

Anyway, you guys are my heroes!

Soup4Rush · Post by **Soup4Rush** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:53 am

yep, combat in a Phillipino bar can get rough.

Walkinghairball · Post by **Walkinghairball** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:56 am

True dat brother Soupy.

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:13 am

My dad was in combat in the Philippines. Dunno if he made it into any bars while there.

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Economics, Humanity and Oil

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