guns

[awip2062]

*ROFLHBO*

Oh, that is a good one! You should have waited until Columbus Day to post that, though, Matt!

[awip2062]

LOL somebody had to pull the trigger nobody has ever to my knowledge been killed BY A GUN...people have been killed by idoits using a gun but never by a gun itself

And that is why if we don't change from the inside out, deal with the issues causing these "symptoms," the murders will continue, just with different instruments.

[ElfDude]

According to the newspapers, guns aren't the only objects that kill people. SUV's also do this. I just did a Yahoo news search of "SUV" and came up with these headlines:

SUV Rollover Leaves 1 Dead

SUV flips on I-10, occupants uninjured

Driver dies after SUV hits a tree

SUV Crashes into Detroit Bar

Police: SUV Full Of Girls Tried To Jump Hill Before Fatal Wreck

Autopsy Scheduled For Man Hit By SUV

SUV strikes, kills Hanover pedestrian

Notice a pattern there? There were no drivers involved. The SUV's did all sorts of malicious things, didn't they? Well... maybe not the one full of girls... it appears to have tried to avoid the fatal wreck by jumping a hill, but I guess it didn't make it. But the one SUV that killed its driver by hitting a tree? I hope that vehicle rots in hell!

[awip2062]

This is something that gets me. Yes, we do use guns to kill here in the states. But look at the causes of death here in the states and what do you see?

"The leading causes of death in 2000 were tobacco (435 000 deaths; 18.1% of total US deaths), poor diet and physical inactivity (400 000 deaths; 16.6%), and alcohol consumption (85 000 deaths; 3.5%). Other actual causes of death were microbial agents (75 000), toxic agents (55 000), motor vehicle crashes (43 000), incidents involving firearms (29 000), sexual behaviors (20 000), and illicit use of drugs (17 000)."

So, Matt is right. Auto crashes accounted for many more deaths than guns! Not to mention our smoking, our poor eating habits, our life as couch potatoes,...

So do we call for an end to the legalization of smoking? The closing of fast food restraunts? Stop the sales of foods that are high in sugars or fats? Make it a law that everyone exercise daily and prosecute those who do not? Rpinstate the laws banning alcohol? Pass laws making everyone use anitbacterial soaps and check to make sure they are cleaning their homes properly, washing their hands well? Take all motor vehicles off the streets?

[Me]

Boys like to shoot things. As my mother likes to say, you can keep toy guns away from a kid and he'll just shoot you with a banana. My parents didn't let me play with toy guns, but that didn't keep me from shooting at everything in sight with bananas, hair dryers, rulers, socket wrenches and the ever-popular index finger.

Last week, the Manhattan Libertarian Party stood up for the rights of little cowboys everywhere. Party members riled city officials by staging a "Guns for Tots" campaign, handing out plastic guns outside a public school in East Harlem. The stunt protested a harebrained new proposal to ban practically all toy guns from the city of New York.

In 1999, after a series of incidents involving toy guns, the New York City Council outlawed the sale and possession of any toy gun that wasn't white, red, orange, yellow, blue, green, purple or transparent. This was supposed to make it obvious which guns are real and which are fake.

But thugs were resourceful. They quickly figured out that they could cover their squirt guns with black tape and use them to hold up liquor stores. A few of them ended up getting shot when they waved their fake guns at police officers. Council members seemed shocked and amazed that their efforts did not reduce gun deaths.

The solution? Outlaw squirt guns! If some council members have their way - and it looks like they will - parents in New York will no longer be able to buy squirt guns for their kids. A new bill would make it "unlawful for any person to sell or offer for sale, possess or use or attempt to use or give away, any toy or imitation firearm which substantially duplicates or can reasonably be perceived to be an actual firearm." Depending on how strictly the law is interpreted, even bananas might be outlawed.

Jacob Rieper of the New York National Rifle Association put the issue this way in an Associated Press story: "Every now and then, some idiot buys a toy gun, paints it black and tries to scare someone with it. And every now and then, that idiot gets shot. So now, no one will be allowed to have a water gun fight. Great."

[Me]

?It is a widely spread Oceanic tale of the origin of death? that human finitude is the result of a choice or conflict between a stone and a banana. Bananas are large, perennial herbs which put forth tall, vigorous shoots which die after producing fruit. The choice, the conflict in these tales is between progeny followed by death (the banana) and eternal but sterile life (the stone). The banana always wins.?

[schuette]

you know I have read all of your answers and it still astounds me why you all think that having a gun in your house is a good thing....maybe it has saved lives....but I can bet my bottom dollar they have killed a lot more.....

to be honest I dont think I can post in this thread anymore as I cant understand why anyone can think guns is a good thing....and to be more honest I cant understand how anyone can advocate such a dangerous weapon

[ElfDude]

Well... I'll try one more set of facts and then let it go.

A few years back (maybe 10 years ago?) an economist named John Lott, who felt the same way you do about gun ownership, set out to write a book about it. In his research he found so much evidence that was contrary to what he believed, his book ended up coming out with the opposite message of what he had originally intended. In the following little book review from Investor's Business Daily, some of the facts he discovered are listed.

Charlton Heston recently took Barbra Streisand to task in full-page ads for her pro-gun-control film, "The Long Island Incident." Yet as much as Streisand's view appeals to some, a new book shows that crime falls where people pack guns.

Thirty- one states now have so-called concealed-carry laws. The rules vary slightly from state to state. In general, though, the laws say that adults without a criminal record or a history of severe mental illness may carry a concealed handgun.

In his new book, "More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws," economist John Lott reveals some startling findings.

Lott studied the FBI's annual crime figures for all 3,054 U.S. counties from '77 through '92 and other data through '94.

His findings show that the "states with the largest increases in gun ownership also have the largest drops in violent crimes." Furthermore, in concealed-carry states, "The number of multiple-victim public shootings declined by 84%." Also, "Deaths from these shootings plummeted on average by 90%, injuries by 82%."

Other findings include:

The longer a concealed-carry law is in place in a state, the more effective it is. Between '77 and '94, for each year a concealed-carry law was in place, murder rates dropped 3% on average, robberies more than 2% and rapes 2%.

A passive victim is more likely to be seriously injured than one who resists with a gun.

High-crime urban areas have the greatest reductions in violent crime when law-abiding citizens are allowed to carry guns.

Children from 5 to 14 years old are three times as likely to die from bicycle accidents as from gun accidents. They also are 14.5% more likely to die from car accidents and five times as likely to die from drowning or fire.

Neither federal nor state waiting periods to buy guns have any association with reduced crime.

In 10 states that passed concealed-carry laws between '77 and '92, the death rate from public, multiple shootings - such as the '93 Long Island train incident - fell by 69%.

"The news media constantly bombard us with bad things that happen with guns," Lott told IBD. "But guns also prevent bad things from happening. Those stories rarely get reported."

Yes, it's unfortunate that citizens have to take more responsibility for their own safety because the police can't be everywhere at once.

But when they do, crime falls. Take heed, Barbra.

Let's repeat the line that really jumped out at me. From the FBI's own crime records:

in concealed-carry states, "The number of multiple-victim public shootings declined by 84%." Also, "Deaths from these shootings plummeted on average by 90%, injuries by 82%."

That's why responsible gun ownership is a good thing.

[Me]

you know I have read all of your answers and it still astounds me why you all think that having a gun in your house is a good thing....maybe it has saved lives....but I can bet my bottom dollar they have killed a lot more.....

to be honest I dont think I can post in this thread anymore as I cant understand why anyone can think guns is a good thing....and to be more honest I cant understand how anyone can advocate such a dangerous weapon

Don't you know Schu we all strap on our six guns in the morning even before we take a crap and I myself got a bullit proof vest for that extra comfy feeling of security. Only thing cops are good for any more is to scrape the brains off the side walks, besides alot of them are crooked as a bent nail. See the guy in my avatar is all pissed off about the subject, he's reaching for his guns now.....DUCK Quack, quack

[Soup4Rush]

I agree with Schu as to I do not understand the need for a gun. I have no use for them and in fact the only time I have shot one is in boot camp. Banning them is not the answer either. There are many law abiding citizens that collect guns and carry them. Its a hobby to them much like F1 racing is a hobby to you. I do not think it is fair to blame guns being legal for the crime that happens in this country. As someone pointed ot most of the crime that happens in this country is in urban areas. not to be racist but facts are facts. Banning guns would be like banning marijuana. You still smoke it even though it is illegal right? I think the answer would be stiffer prison sentences for people who misuse firearms. The problem with this country is that we have laws but the penalty for breaking those laws are a joke. You can actually kill someone, plea bargain for 2nd degree murder and with time served and good behavior be out in 10 years. Thats the problem,not guns.

[Me]

I was being a donkey at trying to be funny. At any rate guns don't kill people, people do. My son said: Guns don't kill people dangeous minorities do. That is some what true due to drugs, gangs etc. and of course we just have plain looney people. We can blaim all day long but in the end it comes down to economic conditions and people that have problems with their mind. Also what dawn said is very correct the nurture
of children. I wish it wasn't so all the crap we see everynight and how come Dafur is just now coming to the forefront have people had theirs eyes shut for the last few years oh that is right it is an election year...pricks! I am interested to know Schuette what are the gun laws in Scotland?

I wrote this in 2004 and was thinking about Darfur at the time

ETHNIC CLEANSING

Furious frustrations
of twisted heads
and empty stomachs

gaps and cracks

Dirt floors of dusty desert canvas
twisted bones

Lucky number
glass houses
euphoria stores

WHAT ABOUT THE REST.....

[ElfDude]

I was being a donkey at trying to be funny.

It looks like I was the only one that thought the SUV headlines were funny.

[awip2062]

I laughed at them, Matt, but then they got me going.

[awip2062]

I wrote this in 2004 and was thinking about Darfur at the time

ETHNIC CLEANSING

Furious frustrations
of twisted heads
and empty stomachs

gaps and cracks

Dirt floors of dusty desert canvas
twisted bones

Lucky number
glass houses
euphoria stores

WHAT ABOUT THE REST.....

The stuff going on in Dafur is horrendous. It always amazes me how little it takes, financially, to help people over there. For example:

[CygnusX1]

I was being a donkey at trying to be funny.

It looks like I was the only one that thought the SUV headlines were funny.

I did Elfie

.....I'm just trying to find a politically-correct way of protesting death-by-SUV, unlike the ones protesting my legally-owned, properly-secured and hunting-only firearms.


.....well....'cept my .357 S&W "Shorty"....it's under the pillow - for unannounced guests, who enjoy breaking and entering - or messing with my bike.

no kids, so no worries...

personally...(and I steal this line from G. Gordon Liddy):

..."I'd rather be judged by twelve - Than carried by six"