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Is Global Warming a Sin?
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Devil Dick



Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may be cooped up but I am not a prisoner only seeing shawdows on the cave wall. Public discourse living in the Ivory tower where the villians and heros are all mixed up. In reality I think there is a measure of global warming, partly due to natural cycles, partly due to humanity... however I also believe that time will tell the reality is that the powers to be are using global warming because the worlds oil is close to empty. At any rate regardless of who, what, why and when later, I think going green will be good for the planet and all its life.
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Walkinghairball



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We should all try to get more planet friendly that I do fully agree. I try my best to recycle and not overuse too much of anything.
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zepboy



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The planet is going to burn up on the end anyway, so I try to enjoy the planet responsibly without getting carried away with greeny thinking.
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ElfDude



Joined: 31 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going green is just a distraction... a pretense. I too agree that we have been given a stewardship over the planet and need to treat it responsibly. But that's not what this is about. For the leadership of the global warming movement it has always been about money and power and control, not about taking care of the planet. That was just something with which they could dupe people.
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zepboy



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What he said! (and said well)
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ElfDude



Joined: 31 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The British press isn't letting this go, and I thank them for it. MSNBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, etc... they seem to want to just sweep it under the rug. With GE owning NBC and MSNBC, you KNOW they don't want America's attention turned to this.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/6679082/Climate-change-this-is-the-worst-scientific-scandal-of-our-generation.html

Quote:
A week after my colleague James Delingpole, on his Telegraph blog, coined the term "Climategate" to describe the scandal revealed by the leaked emails from the University of East Anglia's Climatic Research Unit, Google was showing that the word now appears across the internet more than nine million times. But in all these acres of electronic coverage, one hugely relevant point about these thousands of documents has largely been missed.

The reason why even the Guardian's George Monbiot has expressed total shock and dismay at the picture revealed by the documents is that their authors are not just any old bunch of academics. Their importance cannot be overestimated, What we are looking at here is the small group of scientists who have for years been more influential in driving the worldwide alarm over global warming than any others, not least through the role they play at the heart of the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

Professor Philip Jones, the CRU's director, is in charge of the two key sets of data used by the IPCC to draw up its reports. Through its link to the Hadley Centre, part of the UK Met Office, which selects most of the IPCC's key scientific contributors, his global temperature record is the most important of the four sets of temperature data on which the IPCC and governments rely ? not least for their predictions that the world will warm to catastrophic levels unless trillions of dollars are spent to avert it.

Dr Jones is also a key part of the closely knit group of American and British scientists responsible for promoting that picture of world temperatures conveyed by Michael Mann's "hockey stick" graph which 10 years ago turned climate history on its head by showing that, after 1,000 years of decline, global temperatures have recently shot up to their highest level in recorded history.

Given star billing by the IPCC, not least for the way it appeared to eliminate the long-accepted Mediaeval Warm Period when temperatures were higher they are today, the graph became the central icon of the entire man-made global warming movement.

Since 2003, however, when the statistical methods used to create the "hockey stick" were first exposed as fundamentally flawed by an expert Canadian statistician Steve McIntyre, an increasingly heated battle has been raging between Mann's supporters, calling themselves "the Hockey Team", and McIntyre and his own allies, as they have ever more devastatingly called into question the entire statistical basis on which the IPCC and CRU construct their case.

The senders and recipients of the leaked CRU emails constitute a cast list of the IPCC's scientific elite, including not just the "Hockey Team", such as Dr Mann himself, Dr Jones and his CRU colleague Keith Briffa, but Ben Santer, responsible for a highly controversial rewriting of key passages in the IPCC's 1995 report; Kevin Trenberth, who similarly controversially pushed the IPCC into scaremongering over hurricane activity; and Gavin Schmidt, right-hand man to Al Gore's ally Dr James Hansen, whose own GISS record of surface temperature data is second in importance only to that of the CRU itself.

There are three threads in particular in the leaked documents which have sent a shock wave through informed observers across the world. Perhaps the most obvious, as lucidly put together by Willis Eschenbach (see McIntyre's blog Climate Audit and Anthony Watt's blog Watts Up With That), is the highly disturbing series of emails which show how Dr Jones and his colleagues have for years been discussing the devious tactics whereby they could avoid releasing their data to outsiders under freedom of information laws.

They have come up with every possible excuse for concealing the background data on which their findings and temperature records were based.

This in itself has become a major scandal, not least Dr Jones's refusal to release the basic data from which the CRU derives its hugely influential temperature record, which culminated last summer in his startling claim that much of the data from all over the world had simply got "lost". Most incriminating of all are the emails in which scientists are advised to delete large chunks of data, which, when this is done after receipt of a freedom of information request, is a criminal offence.

But the question which inevitably arises from this systematic refusal to release their data is ? what is it that these scientists seem so anxious to hide? The second and most shocking revelation of the leaked documents is how they show the scientists trying to manipulate data through their tortuous computer programmes, always to point in only the one desired direction ? to lower past temperatures and to "adjust" recent temperatures upwards, in order to convey the impression of an accelerated warming. This comes up so often (not least in the documents relating to computer data in the Harry Read Me file) that it becomes the most disturbing single element of the entire story. This is what Mr McIntyre caught Dr Hansen doing with his GISS temperature record last year (after which Hansen was forced to revise his record), and two further shocking examples have now come to light from Australia and New Zealand.

In each of these countries it has been possible for local scientists to compare the official temperature record with the original data on which it was supposedly based. In each case it is clear that the same trick has been played ? to turn an essentially flat temperature chart into a graph which shows temperatures steadily rising. And in each case this manipulation was carried out under the influence of the CRU.

What is tragically evident from the Harry Read Me file is the picture it gives of the CRU scientists hopelessly at sea with the complex computer programmes they had devised to contort their data in the approved direction, more than once expressing their own desperation at how difficult it was to get the desired results.

The third shocking revelation of these documents is the ruthless way in which these academics have been determined to silence any expert questioning of the findings they have arrived at by such dubious methods ? not just by refusing to disclose their basic data but by discrediting and freezing out any scientific journal which dares to publish their critics' work. It seems they are prepared to stop at nothing to stifle scientific debate in this way, not least by ensuring that no dissenting research should find its way into the pages of IPCC reports.

Back in 2006, when the eminent US statistician Professor Edward Wegman produced an expert report for the US Congress vindicating Steve McIntyre's demolition of the "hockey stick", he excoriated the way in which this same "tightly knit group" of academics seemed only too keen to collaborate with each other and to "peer review" each other's papers in order to dominate the findings of those IPCC reports on which much of the future of the US and world economy may hang. In light of the latest revelations, it now seems even more evident that these men have been failing to uphold those principles which lie at the heart of genuine scientific enquiry and debate. Already one respected US climate scientist, Dr Eduardo Zorita, has called for Dr Mann and Dr Jones to be barred from any further participation in the IPCC. Even our own George Monbiot, horrified at finding how he has been betrayed by the supposed experts he has been revering and citing for so long, has called for Dr Jones to step down as head of the CRU.

The former Chancellor Lord (Nigel) Lawson, last week launching his new think tank, the Global Warming Policy Foundation, rightly called for a proper independent inquiry into the maze of skulduggery revealed by the CRU leaks. But the inquiry mooted on Friday, possibly to be chaired by Lord Rees, President of the Royal Society ? itself long a shameless propagandist for the warmist cause ? is far from being what Lord Lawson had in mind. Our hopelessly compromised scientific establishment cannot be allowed to get away with a whitewash of what has become the greatest scientific scandal of our age.

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Last edited by ElfDude on Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Walkinghairball



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is way better than the ACORN thing. And that was huge too.
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awip2062



Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The third shocking revelation of these documents is the ruthless way in which these academics have been determined to silence any expert questioning of the findings they have arrived at by such dubious methods ? not just by refusing to disclose their basic data but by discrediting and freezing out any scientific journal which dares to publish their critics' work. It seems they are prepared to stop at nothing to stifle scientific debate in this way, not least by ensuring that no dissenting research should find its way into the pages of IPCC reports.

The church has done this and has rightly taken heat for it because it is wrong, wrong, wrong. Now scientists do it to each other? People are going to ask themselves just what they can believe. They can't believe the church because she has lied to them and they can't believe science because she has as well.
What a perfect way for the governments to gain more control. I don't think people will believe in the governments more than they do now, but when people have nothing in which they believe, they are quite easily controlled.
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Soup4Rush



Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if Al Gore's 747 runs E85.. Confused
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ElfDude



Joined: 31 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Soup4Rush wrote:
I wonder if Al Gore's 747 runs E85.. Confused


Remember when the big tobacco companies were under assault because they withheld data and released false reports? There are still ongoing lawsuits against them for that.

This scandal is even bigger. Al Gore and those serving him need to be tried in court.
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Walkinghairball



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you think the Nobel people will ask Gore to return his farce award????
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Sir Myghin



Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walkinghairball wrote:
Do you think the Nobel people will ask Gore to return his farce award????


problem there is he won peace prize not science prize, so parading for acause, even if not factual, top try and change is probably enough for those hippies, its actually more than the nothing the latest winner did Razz
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Walkinghairball



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. Razz
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ElfDude



Joined: 31 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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CygnusX1



Joined: 05 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElfDude wrote:
Remember when the big tobacco companies were under assault because they withheld data and released false reports? There are still ongoing lawsuits against them for that.

This scandal is even bigger. Al Gore and those serving him need to be tried in court.


I remember a certain Senator from Tennessee that made his family's
wealth from tobacco farming, and who lost his own sister to lung cancer,
but I ain't namin' names.
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