Why vote for Hillary?

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ElfDude
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Why vote for Hillary?

Post by ElfDude »

Why vote for Hillary?

Let me preface this with a few items.

1. This will not be a discussion of character. I know that Hillary Clinton is a serial liar, an unethical attorney, a power-hungry egotist, has been surrounded by scandal for decades, and when it looks like someone may be about to rat her out they can be found dead under dubious circumstances. I know that John McCain is a war hero who served his country well, while Hillary?s husband was in Russia leading anti-American protests. I know that because of connections when he was a POW, the opportunity for him to be released alone came about and that he turned it down saying that he would not leave without his brothers in arms. He stayed and endured torture when he could have gotten out. His shoulders still don?t work properly as a result of that torture. I know that he is a man of character. This discussion is not about that.

2. I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat. I registered as an independent. Parties do not interest me. I am an American first and a conservative second.

3. This discussion is not about Obama. He is an entirely different can of worms. This discussion assumes that the race comes down to McCain vs. Clinton.

4. My mind is not made up on this issue. I am still pondering it.

So? what could I possibly be thinking when I say that voting for Hillary might be the best thing for America in the long run?

Let me start with two things I have learned in life to be true: Sometimes there is a long term benefit from doing something painful or unpleasant, and secondly we need to learn from history.

I hated taking my babies in for their shots. The shots hurt and made them cry. They often felt ill for a couple of weeks afterwards. Just as they were feeling good again, it seemed like it was time to go in for more vaccinations. So why did I subject them to that? Because I believed it would be to their benefit in the long run. (note: this is not the time for the conspiracy nuts to chime in with. ?You shouldn?t have done that, man! It?s a conspiracy, man! The government controls us with those shots, man!? I?m only presenting an example)

Now, let?s look at history? recent history that is well within most of our memories.

George Bush Senior was the president and broke a campaign promise and gave the country a tax hike. The timing was such that he threw a cyclical economic low period into a full fledged recession with that tax hike. He lost public favor. It?s very unusual for a party to hold the presidency for more than two terms anyway. The only reason he was there was because the country so loved Ronald Reagan, and could still remember the Carter years. But after that, it was over. It was going to be an easy win for the Democrats in 1992.

Bill Clinton campaigned on a middle class tax cut. Conservatives didn?t trust his shady past, but they also didn?t like the new regulations and new taxes under Bush Sr. Ross Perot ended up splitting the conservative vote and Bill Clinton won the presidency with only about 40% of the popular vote (yet for some reason, nobody cried that he was selected and not elected).

Within the first two years of the Clinton presidency the country was upset. His middle class tax cut promise had turned into the biggest tax hike in American history. Scandals galore had broken out (filegate, travelgate, Whitewater, etc.). And what frightened so many Americans the most? he and his wife were making an unprecedented power grab. They were trying to have the government seize control of one seventh of the US private economy by socializing our health care system.

Well? that was when the Republican Party found its soul again. When it was time for congressional elections they came up with a brilliant campaign strategy. The ?Contract with America? was circulated all through the media. It basically said, ?Give us the majority in congress and in the first 100 days of our term we will bring the following 10 items up for a vote. We can?t promise that they will pass, but we promise that bills will be written and they will be voted upon!? It worked so well that America not only gave them the majority in the congress, but in the senate as well. And they kept the promise! All 10 items were discussed and voted upon.

And it didn?t end there. They went to work on some serious issues. They tackled welfare reform. Bill Clinton fought them tooth and nail on it, but they got it passed. Today Bill takes credit for it. They tackled the budget. Bill Clinton fought them tooth and nail on it, but they actually got it balanced! Today Bill takes credit for it. Reagan used to say that it doesn?t matter who gets the credit, so long as the right thing happens.

During the rest of the Clinton years, not many Clinton policies were implemented. There was more scandal, a lot of calls for us to go back into Iraq and take out Saddam Hussein (the administration claimed Bush Sr. should have done it when we were already in Iraq before? because we hadn?t Saddam continued to brutalize and murder his own people and to develop WMD. Later they would pretend they never said any such thing, but that?s another story). In the final year of the Clinton presidency another recession hit the country when the dot com bubble burst.

As stated earlier, a party rarely holds the presidency for more than two terms. The economy was bad and America wanted change. They elected a Republican president. In his first year the country was attacked in a horrible and brutal manner and the already sagging economy took a turn for the worse. We went to war. But we also were given significant tax cuts and the economy rebounded at a remarkably quick pace.

That was when the Republican Party lost its soul. They spent like crazy. Many point to the war spending, but that?s only the tip of the iceberg. They created new welfare entitlements and new programs. Spending went nuts.

In 2006 the country had reached its limit and they threw the bums out. But it didn?t solve anything. From 2006 to 2008 the congress has seen its lowest approval ratings ever recorded. The Democrats continue to be who they are and the Republicans have not yet found their soul. They continue to spend. They talk about new taxes to fight global warming. They continue to keep us dependant on foreign oil instead of drilling our own again. They even talk about socialized medicine.

So, here we are. The presidential race will come down to a liberal Republican running against a liberal Democrat. For this discussion we?ll assume it will be John McCain against Hillary Clinton.

No matter who wins, it looks like we?re already headed into another recession for the next president to inherit. We have all but achieved victory in Iraq, so either winner will likely slowly downsize our presence there, but neither will remove us altogether (as I believe they should not).

If we elect John McCain, what will we get? He says we?ll get socialized medicine. He says he doesn?t really know much about the economy but he did just buy Greenspan?s book. He says we need new programs to fight global warming. His bill-writing and voting record shows him in favor of amnesty and open borders. Will the current ?progressive? congress oppose him in any of his plans? Not likely. More likely the papers will report how there?s unity like never before and praise the unity. Will the Republicans find their soul under President McCain? Not likely. It?ll be the same old same old.

If we elect Hillary Clinton what will we get? She says we?ll get socialized medicine. She says she will fight the oil companies, the pharmaceutical companies, and other corporations. This will, of course, lead to higher gas prices and more expensive drugs, along with more expensive everything else, and likely higher unemployment. She says we need new programs to fight global warming. Her voting record shows her in favor of amnesty and open borders. Will the current ?progressive? congress oppose her in any of her plans? Not likely. Will the Republicans find their soul under President Clinton? My guess is that history would repeat itself.

The cry from angry Americans would awaken the Republicans. They would retake the house and senate by campaigning against the policies of the Clinton administration. They might even get back to work on balancing the budget.

My thought is that by doing something that hurts a lot in the short term, we may make some long term gains.

Will I actually vote for her? I don?t know. But now you know what?s been rolling around inside of my head.
Last edited by ElfDude on Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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awip2062
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Post by awip2062 »

You make a good point.

IF Hill gets elected, I sure hope you are right and the Republicans come to their senses. It has happened in the past, so there is the historic cycle possibility.

I still don't like the idea of any of the three as president. :-( :cry:
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Post by Soup4Rush »

Wow Elf!! I am totally amazed. That was brilliant. I knew you were well imformed and all, but man.. I have a whole new respect for you. That was a brilliant post, perhaps the best one I have ever read while at By-tor.com. Like I said earlier, I get more from you and BBO than I do reading the newspaper.. :-)
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Post by ElfDude »

Soup4Rush wrote:Wow Elf!! I am totally amazed. That was brilliant. I knew you were well imformed and all, but man.. I have a whole new respect for you. That was a brilliant post, perhaps the best one I have ever read while at By-tor.com. Like I said earlier, I get more from you and BBO than I do reading the newspaper.. :-)
Thank you. And I didn't copy/paste anything either! ;)

I don't expect to convert anyone with it. I just hope it made sense.
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CygnusX1
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Post by CygnusX1 »

Why NOT to vote for Hillary

1. Mean eyes. It?s one of those things that can?t be covered up
with makeup or false smiles, photo lenses or filters. Even when
she smiles, her eyes don?t. I could never trust someone who has
mean eyes.

2. Hillary-care. A behind-closed-doors health plan with the
1st Lady as its architect? It was so bad, apparently, that even her
cronies couldn?t vote for it. And it was the first attempt (of thousands)
on her part to be the President of the United States without having
been elected. A blatant attempt to use her husband?s power to serve
her own ends.


3. No sense of humor. Even when she tries to make a joke
it?s forced and usually denigrates someone. People who cannot laugh
at themselves have serious problems in my estimation. Too much ego
to ever have any humility and probably feels they are incapable of making a mistake.

4. Doesn?t believe in anything (no real position on any issue).
Aside from (obviously) wanting to run the free world, the woman
is without purpose and position. Like her husband, her position on
issues change with each new audience and demographic
. Everything
is surveyed and polled in order to determine what position should
be taken. This means there is an utter lack of conviction in anything
she says
. She is apparently for everything and against everything
equally.

5. She cheated. A resident of Arkansas one day, then after
getting a multi-million dollar advance on a tell-all book (which
apparently didn?t tell all), a purchase of a multimillion dollar home
and voila, she was a New Yorker so she could run for a Senate seat
that was vacating. How does that classify her as representative of
the people of New York?

6. She lied. About many things, but in particular - when she ran
for re-election of above mentioned Senate seat, she said she would
serve her full term
, and that she had no intention of seeking any other
office during her term as Senator. Yet, somehow, she is considered
the front-runner for the Democrat party? I could spend a lot of
time and space on this point, but I?d need a whole blog to do so and
there are others out there who do it much better than I, so I?ll leave
it at that.

7. The Two-fer. During Bill Clinton?s campaign, there were countless interviews,
wherein, they discussed their ?co-presidency?
and how America would be getting two-for-the-price-of-one. In my
mind, junk is still junk, no matter what you paid for it.


8. The Vast Right-wing Conspiracy. While I?ve no doubt that there
are millions of conspiracies where politicians are concerned, this
was merely a well-orchestrated ploy to take the heat off of her and
Bill during the whole Monica-gate, perjury-gate, impeachment-gate
fiasco
(and the general incompetency of the Clinton presidency).
Yet another attempt to blame others for a mess wholly and
completely created by them.

9. Righteous Indignation. First of all, few people can carry this
off and those who can, use it sparingly. That aside, this woman has
no moral high-ground (at least as far as I could ever see, read or find
out about) from which to pontificate. She criticizes the president for
going to war, yet she voted to go to war (as did 98 out of 100 fellow
Senators) then changes it up by saying he isn?t executing it wrongly.

This, from a woman who has no military background whatsoever
and whose husband did all he could to dismantle same. And, whose
largest accomplishment with the Department of Defense was to
enact the ?don?t ask, don?t tell? policy
. Exactly what knowledge,
experience, understanding and expertise
is she employing in making
such a declaration?

10. She cares about NO ONE. I dare anyone out there to find
any truly selfless or caring act on her part, and without there being a
ulterior motive for the action. And I mean acts not words. Words
mean nothing if they aren?t backed up by actions.

11. She makes no difference. She has virtually made no
difference or improvement in conditions of this country during her
Senator-ship.
While it?s true that that could be said about many politicians
- I?m talking about someone who wants to run the free
world
. Hell, even Teddy Kennedy tries to do something and authors
bills that at least somehow agree with his rhetoric. If you don?t
believe me, look it up. Look up how many bills she has actually
authored, or how many solutions she has actually tried or succeeded
in implementing of her own origination.


12. No imagination or vision. We all know she wants to be the
next President, but why? What vision does she have for the future of
the country? What imagination has she ever demonstrated beyond
envisioning herself in the Oval Office? In my mind, the great ones
(and even some of the not so great ones) all had a vision.
Ronald Regan envisioned a shining city on the hill, for example.
What is her vision? Free health-care for everybody? Nothing?s free,
someone will have to pay for it.
Don?t you think it?s going to be you
and me?
No involvement in Iraq and withdrawal of the troops? Is
that a vision, or a catastrophe waiting to happen?

13. No skills. Aside from talking a pretty good game and
having lots of black pantsuits, what skill does she bring to anything?
She?s already said she isn?t Suzie Homemaker, she doesn't cook,
doesn?t seem to have any interest in children, education, the environment,
etc.
She just wants everything to be free for everybody except for
those who have to pay for it
. She hasn?t worked
a job since the Rose Law Firm about 20 years ago - she and Bill have
been living off the taxpayers for decades. She can?t dance, tell
a joke decently or put people at ease. She can?t write, and both her
books were written by ghostwriters. She can?t even do her own hair
and makeup (don?t believe me? look at some early pictures of
Hillary).


14. Has no self-respect. While the woman has an ego bigger
than the great outdoors, the woman has no respect for herself
. She
has remained married to a man who has continuously, openly and
publicly cheated on her. Why? You have to ask yourself: What self-respecting
individual would remain married to a cheating, lying, unrepentant spouse?

The answer - power. She is willing to give up
her integrity and self respect for power. To me, not a good reason,
and one which will cause heartache to the nth degree.

Okay, those are my reasons why I would never vote for Hillary and,
I suppose, an explanation of sorts of why I find her nauseating.

Nope, she?ll never get my vote.
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Post by ElfDude »

CygnusX1 wrote: Okay, those are my reasons why I would never vote for Hillary and,
I suppose, an explanation of sorts of why I find her nauseating.

Nope, she?ll never get my vote.
And I completely understand.
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Post by Soup4Rush »

another good post... you know I just thought of something... Bush went to war in Iraq, and no matter how low his ratings sunk and no matter how much he has been slammed by his fellow Americans...

HE HAS STAYED THE COURSE.. He believes in something and no matter how bad it will make his legacy look, he has stayed the course because he believes it is the right thing to do.

What would Hillary do if she was slammed for doing something unpopular?
probably the same thing her husband did, jump over the fence and deny everything.

You have to admire somebody for fighting for what they truly believe in.

nice post Sigs..
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Post by CygnusX1 »

Don't put too much stock into it Elf.

I take no credit, as I lifted it off a Indy website. :roll:

Sorry Brudda Soups, but hey - there were good counterpoints, yes?
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Post by Big Blue Owl »

My thought is that by doing something that hurts a lot in the short term, we may make some long term gains.
For many reasons, this clever hypothesis included, you are a great parent. :-)
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Post by ElfDude »

Big Blue Owl wrote:
My thought is that by doing something that hurts a lot in the short term, we may make some long term gains.
For many reasons, this clever hypothesis included, you are a great parent. :-)
Bah. Dawn puts my parenting to shame.

But, thank you for finding a nice thing to say after reading a lengthy post with which I'm sure you proufoundly disagreed. You're a good friend.
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Post by Big Blue Owl »

Your comment gave me reason for pause...but like the jelly-brain I am I didn't. I don't think I profoundly disagree with you that it may work. I also don't think that a Republican in the White House is necessarily a bad thing. If there is balance, fairness, and justice, that is all we can ask for, whomever is at the helm. We agree on how the present "leadership" has failed. We also agree that things are not right right now and that we are good friends. :-)
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Post by Walkinghairball »

I still say all three ain't worth a poop.
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Post by Me »

Soup4Rush wrote:another good post... you know I just thought of something... Bush went to war in Iraq, and no matter how low his ratings sunk and no matter how much he has been slammed by his fellow Americans...

HE HAS STAYED THE COURSE.. He believes in something and no matter how bad it will make his legacy look, he has stayed the course because he believes it is the right thing to do.

What would Hillary do if she was slammed for doing something unpopular?
probably the same thing her husband did, jump over the fence and deny everything.

You have to admire somebody for fighting for what they truly believe in.

nice post Sigs..
Good comment Soup and very true however I wish I knew the "REAL" reason he went into Iraq, after all their are many vicious leaders through out the world but not all of them have black gold. Good post elfdude but could you tell me what you think about Obama after reading your very intellingent post I'd like some infomation on how your thinking about him.
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Post by ElfDude »

Me wrote:could you tell me what you think about Obama
I'm trying not to be hasty in any conclusions about him. But the more I read about his life and who he has surrounded himself with... the more I'm inclined to think he's just another Jesse Jackson who wears a very good mask.

http://www.tnr.com/story_print.html?id= ... 163d4f25c7
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Post by CygnusX1 »

Obama just stepped in it AGAIN:

Barack Obama and his recently-revealed ties to the Weather
Underground group ...

http://www.newswithviews.com/BreakingNe ... king55.htm
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