Would you wave your personal freedoms?

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:10 pm

About the time our original 13 states adopted their new constitution,
in the year 1787, Alexander Tyler (a Scottish history professor at
The University of Edinborough) had this to say about "The Fall of The
Athenian Republic" some 2,000 years prior.

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a
permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up
until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves
generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits
from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will
finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed
by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the
beginning of history, has been about 200 years.-
During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

From Bondage to spiritual faith;
From spiritual faith to great courage;
From courage to liberty;
From liberty to abundance;
From abundance to complacency;
From complacency to apathy;
From apathy to dependence;
From dependence back into bondage."

If he's right, it scares me how quickly how much of this country is voting for the guy who promises to give away the most... "free" healthcare, bigger government grants for college, whatever. From my limited perspective it looks like we're in his apathy to dependence phase.

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:12 pm

by-tor wrote:
Kares4Rush wrote:I was on FIRE when I hit 18 and registered. I was so proud to pull the lever for the first time. Really.
Funny story about registering....not about voting, but for selective service (yeah, I know, but when do we stay on topic? )

That's a hilarious story!

Kares4Rush · Post by **Kares4Rush** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:19 pm

by-tor that cracked me up!

Elfie, you scare me more than you know. In college I took Anthropology because it was available. I became fascinated with the "history" of mankind. Not "history" in the books but more of the "evolution" type.

My professor said, that if evololution and history goes the way it has..."historically" that this country is in for a tail spin soon (he wasn't being political) unless it takes a step back and sees the path it is taking without the perspective. The dregs of what we have created will die and the "best" will be picked up by another culture. Rome to Athens, etc. Scary.

Hopefully as people and cultures slowly evolve so will the lessons learned and the pitfalls will be avoided. Forward, MARCH. (April, May, June, July...)

awip2062 · Post by **awip2062** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 9:00 am

The only thing I would quibble about is that we are NOT a democracy. We are a democratic republic. I do believe that the assessment Elfie laid out is true, however.

The Snow Dog · Post by **The Snow Dog** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 4:45 pm

It's frightening how many of you guys are so pessimistic. Yes, we're in a sad state of affairs as it is. Yes, Kerry is a dumbass suggesting free healthcare for everyone. Yes, historically we're running in the same circle. But the Bird that is Democracy, as Kares so elagantly put it, is just learning how to fly. My faith lies within the set-up of our government. And as for ancient Athens, we've got one up on them... we're not surrounded by hundreds of city-states that would be just as well off if we were gone. Well, we are surrounded by a bunch of countries that would be just as well off if we were gone (happier, at least) but then, we are more the Sparta then the Athens. Visa-ve, we've got the bombs. Which puts us a step above.

Hopefully.

*Rubs the magic 8-ball of Optimism*

Devil's Advocate · Post by **Devil's Advocate** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:00 pm

The Snow Dog wrote: Kerry is a dumbass [for] suggesting free healthcare for everyone.

Non-sequitur.

The Snow Dog · Post by **The Snow Dog** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:00 pm

bah! ?ngilsh Language be damned!

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:48 pm

awip2062 wrote:The only thing I would quibble about is that we are NOT a democracy. We are a democratic republic. I do believe that the assessment Elfie laid out is true, however.

It wasn't exactly MY assesment. I qualified it with "if he's right".

I also believe that this nation has a few things going for it... unique things that that old boy hadn't yet encountered.

Kares... I'm sorry if I scared you. That wasn't the goal of the post.

awip2062 · Post by **awip2062** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:53 pm

I didn't say it was YOUR assessment. I said "the assessment Elfie laid out."

And we could experience a miracle, but the way it looks is not pretty.

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 10:09 pm

awip2062 wrote:I didn't say it was YOUR assessment. I said "the assessment Elfie laid out."

Ah... you did, didn't you?

awip2062 · Post by **awip2062** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:39 am

Yeah, and you could have been, and were, laying out someone else's thoughts.

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:28 pm

awip2062 wrote:Yeah, and you could have been, and were, laying out someone else's thoughts.

Like I said in that other thread... I haven't got an original bone in my body.

*Lifesonite · Post by *Lifesonite » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Would I wave my personal freedoms? What's stoppin' me!?

*Rocks and rolls all night, partys every day*

Xanadu · Post by **Xanadu** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:18 am

Fuck no...

Giving up liberties even if it did prevent terrorism would still be stupid because then having even less freedom...what are you protecting when you are loosing your rights? The terroists win that way you know. Why don't we mandate Islam so we don't offend them and they won't attack us so we're safe.

Me · Post by Me » Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:49 am

Flexible and agile human resource to initiate with representatives to discuss proposed regulations which will initiate specific implementing regulations of interpersonal communiction, so not to have conflicts on the proposed sequence of events to provide feedback in identifying any proposed improvements as we implement the system to the entire By-Tor population.

tick tock, tick tock, tick...