CygnusX1 wrote:I can go along with unions (for insurance and death benefit
purposes), but that's it.
Marriage is defined over and over as between a man and woman.
Did you know that 70% of California's Americans-of-African-Descent
doomed the passage of prop 8, yet the angry gay masses only protested Saddleback Church?
I'd like to see 'em protest in South Central, or in Watts.
That's not gonna happen though.
No, Siggs, the angry gay masses didn't protest only at Saddleback. They protested at the LDS Temples as well.
Here's just one of the articles about the hate being shown to the Mormons, written by and LAPD officer who is LDS himself.
Meridian was hacked into last week, apparently by Prop 8 opponents, and in the place of our content was placed a homosexual pornographic film
(Meridian is the name of the site where the article was published.)
In the Bureau command post there was a large screen television displaying scenes from the protest outside the Los Angeles temple. Imagine my surprise, when angry protestors began rushing the closed temple gates, and I heard an officer in the command post say, ?I hope they burn that place to the ground.?
The worst, however, was yet to come. The temple presidency made a decision to close the temple for the evening. The right decision, but since when do we as Americans stand by ? no matter what our religion ? while access to a place of worship is forced to close down because of aggressive outside influences?
Some freedom of religion, eh? If we stand by and allow this to happen to a group we don't belong to, who will stand by us for our freedom of religion when the mobs come against us?
The late local news showed scenes of several Hispanic females in tears outside the temple trying to remove the signs desecrating the walls and fences surrounding the temple. As these individuals ? who according to a temple spokesperson were not church members ? removed the hate-filled signs, the mob exploded and began beating the individuals to the ground.
I gotcha about the wanting a dad thing...thinking back I in fact suffered the same, even though I had a dad who lived with us, he was non-existent in raising me and emotionally distant much of the time when he was around. Not a good thing. I don't know about raising kids because of that, but still think they should ged married though
Xanadu wrote:
And its not about they want the same partner...seriously who wants to share a partner? How is that a fulfilling relationship? Basically polygamy is where a man dominates a bunch of women (or vice versa?). I don't see any thing good out treating others that way and I don't know that we should allow it.
Perhaps you cannot see wanting to share a partner, and can only see this as a less-than-fulfilling relationship, there are people out there who are promoting this lifestyle as the best lifestyle there is.
I gotcha about the wanting a dad thing...thinking back I in fact suffered the same, even though I had a dad who lived with us, he was non-existent in raising me and emotionally distant much of the time when he was around. Not a good thing. I don't know about raising kids because of that, but still think they should ged married though
Not trying to be contentious, but, why do you think they should ged married?
Xanadu wrote:
No, I DO see polygamy as harmful...maybe that was a typo on your part. The ones that thinks its wonderful are brainwashed.
How did being raised in a gay home hurt you? Although I do get it, about having a male role model and a female role model. Don't kids that are raised by gays have role models in the community? I'd rather see gays raise a kid than 2 white trash parents, wife beater alcoholic husband and stupid insecure wife that stays with him and the kids suffer.
It was Soup who I was responding to as the one who did not see polygamy as harmful, not you, Xan.
How did being raised in a gay home hurt me? I felt emotional pain, wanting a father but not having one. I wanted a man in my family, not another woman. I wanted this from a young age, before I got out into society. My mom used to tell me about how I as a toddler would have fits about wanting a dad in the house.
It hurt, too, when my mom would have a boyfriend and he'd leave. Or she'd get engaged and then break it off. It hurt like hell.
In addition, I have to remind you that the gay relationships have just as much trouble as straight ones. I've seen physical abuse of partners in a gay relationship. I've seen alcoholic and insecure partners staying together and the harm done to the children from that in their relationship in a gay family. See, that white trash family you describe was one of the gay relationships I lived in as a child. I've seen gay relationships that appeared safe as well, but you can't say that the heterosexuals have a corner on sick relationships.
I'm missing something here t, so sorry if I stepped on toes. I'll play the
ignorance card if it's okay. I'm not a homophobe.
You need to read this if you don't know about it already...
(My wife's boss is gay, so she told us about this):
California is roiling over the voters' approval of Proposition 8, which
defines marriage as between a man and a woman.
Talk about the Wild West. Thugs carrying rainbow flags, the symbol of gay
pride and (alleged) tolerance, are marching around various spots in the
state protesting the vote of the people. In fact, they are protesting two
elections in which Californians sided with traditional marriage.
Protests are one thing, but the No-On-Proposition-8 people are crossing
the line, intimidating people, forcing folks out of jobs, attacking others and
threatening to burn churches. Sounds like something right out of the KKK
handbook.
What's next? Will these sore losers take over the Hollywood Bowl and
start throwing the Christians to the lions? By the look of some of these
rabid rabble-rousers, they are ready for blood. They've had it with
conservative Jews, Christians and anybody who doesn't approve of gay
marriage.
Before I run down a list of the boorish and illegal behavior of the No-On-
Proposition-8 crowd, let me offer an important tip. You gay-rights folks
have supporters in mainstream America and among conservatives, but
you're losing it faster than I can say "bigot."
That's right. Your behavior is bigoted, and you are committing hate crimes.
You expect tolerance, but offer none.
Take the case of Scott Eckern, artistic director of the California Musical
Theatre. Well, he was artistic director ? until a gang of intolerant gay and
lesbian activists decided to boycott the theatre.
Why?
Because Eckern donated to the Yes-On-8 campaign.
Imagine that. He had the audacity to exercise his constitutional rights of
expression. Now he's out on his keester, forced to resign.
Gay activists see nothing wrong with the situation.
"Inequality is just plain bad for business. Just like customers would avoid
a company that employs an avowed white supremacist or anti-Semite,
customers won't support a straight supremacist," said Brock Keeling from
SFist, a gay online publication. "Prop 8 supporters like this guy made a
public choice by donating to the campaign: to try to impose their will on
other people. It's silly to pretend to be surprised that people don't want
to support their own oppressors."
Nobody is asking the gay community to support oppressors. But how
about the tolerance they champion?
It couldn't be found on the campaign trail or even after the election was
over, when anti-Prop 8 mobs have taken to the streets and mowed over
anybody who disagrees with them.
Ask Phyllis Burgess, a Prop 8 supporter who was attacked.
She attended a gay rights rally in Palm Springs and made the mistake of
carrying a cross, a sign that she was a targeted Christian. A protester
grabbed her cross, stomped on it, hit her on the head, and another spit
on her, Burgess said.
"They began grabbing me. It was like a dog pack," Burgess said.
"I don't want to keep it peaceful anymore," one protester yelled. "We
should fight! We should fight!" he shouted.
The No-On-8 campaign set the stage for a bigoted, violent campaign when
it ran commercials such as one that shows two Mormon missionaries
going to a house of a lesbian couple. The commercial shows the Mormons
taking off the women's rings and tearing up the marriage certificate.
The Most Rev. Stephen Blaire, bishop of Stockton and president of the
California Catholic Conference, commented in a press release, calling the
ad "a blatant display of religious bigotry and intolerance" and expressing
dismay any public media outlet would air it, according to Catholic News
Agency.
Folks like Jose Nunez, 37, didn't have a chance against the No-On-8
hatemongers. He was beaten until his eye dripped with blood just
because he was distributing Yes-On-8 signs at his church.
No campaign of hate is complete without Roseanne Barr tossing in her
enlightened opinion. She wrote on her blog that Jews and Christians are
nothing but lobbying groups and should lose their tax-exempt status. I
didn't see anything about her condemning the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, now
infamous for his anti-American screeds from the pulpit. She also
unloaded on Mormons, saying they "hate our country" and want to
institute "Taliban-like polygamy."
This week, Barr attacked African-Americans, saying, "They showed
themselves every inch as bigoted and ignorant as their white christian
(sic) right wing counterpartners (sic) who voted for mccain-palin and
bush-cheney," noted the Radio Equalizer.
I guess it's time for Christians, Jews and African-Americans to prepare for
the lions and jack-booted leftist thugs who plan to disembowel the
Constitution and anybody who votes contrary to their beliefs.
Our only hope is that the hate-crime cops, championed by these very
suspects, stop the rabid bigots.
I agree with taking away religious groups' tax exempt status. Not some, all.
Now that African Americans are on the pathway to acceptance and equality (I believe that they finally feel that this is true) this leaves the door open for another group of humans that we have managed to make less human - the gays. History shows us that violence is but one way that they will attempt to gain acceptance and equality. What kind of monsters would think less of or give less rights to any human being, simply because of who receives their love? An ugly irony, that.
None of us is more important or precious than the next person. My beliefs have nothing to do with his or hers or yours, so I will never judge you according to mine. You are human, therefore just as relevant, important and beautiful as all of creation's children.
I would LOVE to see the tax-exempt status of the churches removed. I've thought that churches should voluntarily exempt themselves from that for years now. Then the pastor could really preach what he believed from the pulpit instead of having to watch his every word. Like he did back in the day of our Founding Fathers.
The difference I see between gays and African Americans is that the gays (okay, this is what I believe from what I have seen in my life and I know there are others that will argue this completely) are gay not by accident of birth, but by choice. If I believed they were born that way, things would be very different in my book.
Ok, those are addictions...to those people, gambling, shopping...etc make them feel good.
There is no way in hell I could choose to like women...I mean I am 100% NOT sexually attracted to women. I like guys only. There has never been a choice...I'm strait.
Xanadu wrote:Ok, those are addictions...to those people, gambling, shopping...etc make them feel good.
There is no way in hell I could choose to like women...I mean I am 100% NOT sexually attracted to women. I like guys only. There has never been a choice...I'm strait.
And I don't believe you are challenged by anyone on that.
Xanadu wrote:Ok, those are addictions...to those people, gambling, shopping...etc make them feel good.
There is no way in hell I could choose to like women...I mean I am 100% NOT sexually attracted to women. I like guys only. There has never been a choice...I'm strait.
Gambling and shopping can be addictions, yes, (I think that for much of our population, though, the debt isn't caused by addictions but by greed, keeping-up-with-the-Jones', and other poor choices) but they are also choices that cause great trouble in people's lives. And, just as there is something in these addictions that make the people feel good, there are aspects of the gay life that make homosexuals feel good, too. It isn't all hell.
And I don't doubt you are 100% straight.
I have, however, sat and listened to lesbians tell me how they were once straight but "discovered" later that they were gay. They had no idea in their younger days, never had had an attraction to women until they became acquainted to other lesbians. This seems to me, to indicate that they were not gay from birth.
