WMD Lies

Soup4Rush · Post by **Soup4Rush** » Wed May 12, 2004 12:15 pm

Here is my 2 cents... I have always supported the war in Iraq. regardless of the WMDs or not, I always felt that the people and the region would be better off without Hussien. But given everything that is going on in that region it is time to cut bait and go. No one over there seems to like us or the joys of freedom anyway. so I say Fuck em!!! We should execute Saddam and pull out. Let them have thier shithole of a country just the way they like it with some asshole in charge and everybody starving. They don't care as long as it is a Muslim abusing them. And as far as the prison abuse goes, all them assholes were once on the giving end of those sticks and leashes however 2 wrongs do not make a right and it should not have happened. BUT it is time to go. So we pull out and than we pull our people out of that other shit hole country Afghanistan and we carpet bomb that 40 miles of terrain that Bin Laden is cowering in. We bomb it so bad that even the cockroaches die. Than we pull all of our people out of every one of those shit hole middle east countries. screw em all!!! Let em kill each other until thier hearts are content. In the meantime we park 2 aircraft carriers and her complements in the Indian Ocean just within striking distance of any one of those countries and if it even looks like one of those bastards are going to cause trouble outside of thier region we bomb them (from the air mind you) into submission. They all like dying for the cause anyway. and that goes for Israel too. Let them and the Arabs duke it out. America is never going to fix that. They have hated each other for a 1000 years and America cannot change that. I am sick and tired of seeing american kids die for a bunch of ungrateful assholes who can't stick up for themselves. I think Bush had the right intentions but it is clear now they don't want freedom or our help getting it. The world would be a much better place if that whole region was vaporized. Fire away and if you don't like my opinion I could care less. But after seeing some American kid getting his head cut off when all he was trying to do was help really pisses me off. Too bad them bastards did not have the balls to take those rags off thier heads and show thier cowardly faces when they killed that kid.

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Wed May 12, 2004 12:27 pm

You're forgetting something imortant. This is war. We spent the past 25 years (since Khomenei or even earlier if you count Sirhan Sirhan) trying to get along with the Muslim jihadists by non-military means, and it led to 9/11. If we don?t stop them here, if we withdraw, if we lose our nerve, do you think they will hesitate one minute to bring the war to our shores?

No matter what a few prison guards did, we have no choice but to keep on in Iraq. Imagine the next terrorist attack. Suppose nuclear devices are set off simultaneously in New York, Washington, and Los Angeles. Suppose not 3,000 dead but 300,000 dead. What do you think the American people will demand of our President then?

For their sake and ours, we must stay and prevail.

I am so sick of the media in this country trying to turn the population against this war. They pulled it off during Viet Nam, but they must not be allowed to do it again. Don't let them turn you into a coward. Earlier today I sent the following to CBS News...

I guess "60 Minutes II" has its first kill.

A guy named Nick Berg.

It was his misfortune to be an enemy captive during sweeps. A lot of people have died to protect the First Amendment, but this is the first time the First Amendment itself has killed one of them outright.

The media (starting with you guys) and the politicians started an orgy and
Nick Berg had to pay the tab. You pump those pictures of abused Iraqi
prisoners long enough and pretty soon there's going to be hell to pay.

But then, that's OK. It gives you another story, another thing to criticize
the president for, another tool to demoralize the country with, another way
to tear down our troops.

And we're left to ponder the question: When do politics and journalism
become treason? And when will all you squawking whores realize you have
blood on your hands?

Soup4Rush · Post by **Soup4Rush** » Wed May 12, 2004 12:40 pm

What I am saying is we surround them with our Navy and Air Force. Use our technology ie satellites. Hell they can zero in on the pimple on a camel's ass. Why do we need our people on the ground. They threaten us and we blast them and screw rebuilding them. They are just going to destroy what we do anyway. Why help somebody who does not want our help. Let em starve. Who the hell cares? Lets concentrate on keeping our shores safe by using our resources and not getting our people killed. Let them do the dying, they like to die anyway. Lets help them.

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Wed May 12, 2004 12:53 pm

I understand the emotion of what you're saying. But it doesn't follow through logically.

Soup4Rush · Post by **Soup4Rush** » Wed May 12, 2004 1:16 pm

Than let me ask you logically, Who are our kids dying for? The people of the middle east? I could give a fuck about the people of the middle east. They like to die. They like to die in the name of poverty, starvation and chaos. So lets send them on thier way, with airplanes, cruise missiles, what ever. We need to use our advantage.... Don't bring a knife to a knife fight, bring a gun, a big one. I would rather see a thousand of thier civilians die than another one of our people. Did Vietnam not teach us anything? How many American lives were saved by dropping an Atom bomb on Japan to end WWII. If somebody comes into my house to harm my family I will kill them at any cost. It is the way the world is, has been and will always be. You use your advantage to survive.

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Wed May 12, 2004 5:12 pm

Soup4Rush wrote:Than let me ask you logically, Who are our kids dying for? The people of the middle east?

While there are humanitarian reasons for our presence in Iraq, fisrt and foremost our kids are dying for YOU AND ME, Buckwheat!

In 1983 the Islamo-facists declared war on us. They've attacked us repeatedly. But it took 9/11, over 3000 deaths on our own soil, for us to finally start fighting back. We can't ignore them any longer. You can only ignore a cavity in your tooth for so long before it begins to cause so much trouble that you've GOT to go to a dentist and get it dealt with, or else your teeth start rotting and falling out. By doing what we're doing in Iraq we've taken the battle ground from the U.S. back into the middle-east, and that's a great first step.

And I'm hoping, praying, that FINALLY, the commie-libs out there who have been whining, "but Iraq doesn't have anything to do with al Queda! This is just Bush's war for oil!" will get it through their heads. Where was Berg be-headed? Iraq! With whom did the murderers claim affiliation? al Queda! We're fighting for our own security! Don't let any linguini-spined liberal tell you otherwise.

Soup4Rush wrote:I could give a fuck about the people of the middle east.

It's always nice to see how compassionate Rush fans are towards their fellow men.

Soup4Rush wrote:They like to die. They like to die in the name of poverty, starvation and chaos.

Where are you getting your information? The only ones I know of who like to die are the Islamo-facists who believe that they get to rape virgins in the next world if they die killing infidels in the name of Allah. (What a lovely religion, eh?) I've never heard any claim of them loving to die in the name of poverty, starvation and chaos. If I'm wrong, you can point me to your source of facts.

Soup4Rush wrote:So lets send them on thier way, with airplanes, cruise missiles, what ever. We need to use our advantage.... Don't bring a knife to a knife fight, bring a gun, a big one.

Here we are in agreement. I don't think we've quite hit the point of needing to use nukes yet, it's driven me crazy how the hands of the military have been tied in this mission, all because of what our enemy within is so worried about what other nations might think of us. When you're at war, you go in with an objective to win, and then you do it, whatever it takes!

That having been said, the casualty ratios have been extraordinary in this war... far far far better than we ever saw in Viet Nam. But this is not the time for hand wringing over us having subjected the murderous, terrorist, thugs that we had in that cell block over there to the kind of thing that you go through in fraternity hazing (or see on the stage at a Madonna concert). That "abuse" was discovered and stopped before Valentines Day and the perps are being dealt with. We need to finish the battle in Iraq, help them launch their new democracy, and move on in this war against Islamo-facism.

awip2062 · Post by **awip2062** » Wed May 12, 2004 7:13 pm

H's DLB, aka Bear, is my 13 year old son. He says that when he turns 18, if the war is still going on, he will join up and go over there.

My father didn't have to join up and go to 'Nam, he was exempted from the draft, but he joined up and went for at least two tours.

Our family has always had men in the service, fighting for someone's freedom.

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Wed May 12, 2004 7:24 pm

I keep telling you over and over, you're a wonderful mom!

awip2062 · Post by **awip2062** » Wed May 12, 2004 7:54 pm

Thanks again. It isn't me, ya know. I could not do this myself.

Soup4Rush · Post by **Soup4Rush** » Thu May 13, 2004 8:39 am

I was all for this war not because of WMD, but because the region and the people would be better off without the regime. You say for humanitarian reasons eh? They don't want our help. This they have made clear and I have plenty of compassion for my fellow man however when they burn my flag that I have taken an oath, and yes I did take the oath, to defend and they kill my fellow countrymen who are trying to defend them from the scourges of the earth than yeah I don't have compassion for them. Would you have compassion for the man that raped your wife or killed your kids? And as far as protecting me we don't need troops on the ground getting killed to do it. We use technology, ie satellites, recon planes, drones etc and if they get out of line we blast them and not with nukes unless as a last resort I might add. I just don't think you get it. I used to think like you but I am tired of seeing our guys die for an ungrateful people. They like to be abused as long as it is a Muslim doing it and not a Jew or Christian.

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Thu May 13, 2004 11:35 am

Oh geez? okay, let?s try again. There are so many flaws in this argument that it?s hard to know where to begin. Well, let?s start with the most blatant ones and work from there.

You write, ?They don't want our help. This they have made clear and?? Who are you talking about exactly? If you?re talking about the vast majority of the Iraqi citizen base you?re completely factually incorrect. Polls of Iraqi citizens indicate that one of their major fears is that American troops will leave before the job is finished. If you?re talking about the terrorists then, no, they don?t want our help. They want us dead? every single Jew and infidel must die according to them (including America?s liberals, sorry Endlessly Rocking, they want to kill you too). But by categorizing all Iraqis as terrorists you take all the teeth out of your argument because it goes in the face of the facts.

You write, ?They like to be abused as long as it is a Muslim doing it and not a Jew or Christian.? Again, whom are you talking about and where are you getting this stuff? You refused to answer that last time and I?m asking you again to back it up. Where is it documented that Iraqis like to be abused?

You write, ?We use technology, ie satellites, recon planes, drones etc? I just don't think you get it.?. For crying out loud, man, those things work great in conventional warfare but we?re dealing with terrorists! This is not new technology. We?ve had it for many years. It didn?t help prevent the attacks on September 11, 2001 and it won?t prevent future attacks of the same nature. It doesn?t prevent suicide bombers climbing onto busses and taking out all the innocents on board. It didn?t prevent train station bombings in Spain. This enemy just doesn?t fight the way you?re talking about.

Why do so many people refuse to look at the facts? *takes a deep cleansing breath*

Anyway, I get it just fine. From your statements, it looks like the difference between us is that I want to identify THE ENEMY and fight THE ENEMY while you want us to simply go genocidal and wipe out entire nations. Well, that?s the way the jihad boys think, and I would hope this nation is never reduced to it (at least until an entire nation is truly out to kill us).

By the way, you?ve gotten me curious. What is this oath to defend the flag you mention?

by-tor · Post by **by-tor** » Thu May 13, 2004 12:08 pm

Let's try not to get personal guys.

Soup4Rush · Post by **Soup4Rush** » Thu May 13, 2004 12:51 pm

The oath that all men and women take when they join the military. I am by far not a liberal. I don't have the numbers and all the facts memorized like you do. I was for the war and the need to help the Iraqi people. But are our men and women really dying to protect me? or are they dying to protect the Iraqis? Is this war for humanitarian purposes or is it for national security. Do we need people on the ground over there to identify terrorist cells? Since you have the numbers memorized, wasn't is 40 billion Bush asked for to help the Iraqis. How is that protecting me? I say we invest that money in homeland security and we keep a real close eye on the middle east from "afar" and we take care of things as the need arises. I don't care about your "facts" I don't care about the middle east. I don't care about the Iraqi's. The only thing I care about is the needless loss of American life for humanitarian purposes. If our people are truly dying to protect me than I am grateful. but I don't think they are. I served proudly in the US Navy. I risked my life everytime I walked onto a flight line or onto the deck of a carrier. If I died doing that I knew that I died protecting my country. If I am a soldier on patrol in Iraq do I know why I am risking my life? Am I protecting the very people who are trying to kill me? You sound like you know your facts and numbers. Tell me, How many Americans have died for the Iraqi people. and how many more will die before somebody says enough, ie Vietnam.

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Thu May 13, 2004 5:03 pm

Ah, you're Navy. Then first of all I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your service to our country. I say that sincerely. You've done more for your country than I ever have.

The point I'm about to make, I only do as a matter of distinction. I'm not trying to be snotty at all.

The oath you took went as follows:

I, Soup4Rush, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

You swore to defend the Constitution, not the flag. I know that may sound nit-picky, but to me it's a big difference.

Somewhere around 700 Americans have made the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq. How many terrorists they've taken out in the process is a very difficult number to find, but it's in the tens of thousands. Did they do it to protect us or the Iraqis? Both. Is it for humanity or security? Both. What's good for them is also good for us, and vice-versa.

Rudy Giuliani recently made a speech in which he made a point that helped a few things click in my brain. It was something that I think I already knew, but he drew an analogy that really helped it to make sense. He likened the war on terror to his war in New York on the mafia. He explained that he was fighting aginst five different mafia families. If you take out one of the families, the others simply become stronger. For someone to defeat the mafia in New York, they have to take out all five families.

Anyone who is willing to admit that this really is a war against an enemy that declared war on us over 20 years ago, and that the enemy is radical Islam, has to understand that this isn't just about Afghanistan and it isn't just about Iraq. For our own safety we're going to have to take care of every hotbed of Islamo-facist terrorism out there. It won't be pleasant. The grieving that we've experienced so far, well, I suspect we ain't seen nothing yet.

It's tough for people of our generation because we've never had the experience of being in a full scale war and winning. We really don't have a clue what that entails. So the best we can do is try to study history and learn from it and try not to give up.

I really do understand the emotions and the frustrations you describe. I just can't see any basis in the belief that we can defeat the enemy from afar. Trying to do that just brings the battle back to our own shores.

Again, thank you for your service to our country.

awip2062 · Post by **awip2062** » Thu May 13, 2004 6:22 pm

Well said, Elfie.