Rockline

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neilpeart_gal
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Post by neilpeart_gal » Thu Dec 11, 2003 2:48 pm

We will all understand, but we sure would miss it!! 8)

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Kares4Rush
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Post by Kares4Rush » Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:46 pm

Pardon my ignorance but who the hell is Bob Farmer? And why would he attempt to pull websites? I thought the government did that.

I'm not well-versed on the "wars" but I thought it was all SRO (Atlantic) sites. Apparently not. Sigh.

Perhaps I'm hopelessly niave but why in the world would this site be in trouble for "whatever" reasons? The people here are benevolant and have alot of fun.

I thought sites were pulled for "building bombs" or kiddie porn or some such nonsense. Counterparts is a site built purely for anti-Trinet or whatever reasons so it's hard to get a good clean conversation there like it can be here. I have no problem with thier problems, it's just that I don't want it MY problem. It gets tiring being so angry and negative.

If Rockline pulled someone with an "agenda" for the discussion that was in a cleverly "couched" question maybe they thought it wasn't appropriate.

In my opine by-tor had to pay for his arrogance when he had a legit question. I mean, really, how does one answer a question about being banned from websites? Geddy and Alex were there for the music and (yes) to promote the DVD.

It was a spit-second decision they made (in my opinion) and unfortunately it made them "on alert" for other people on the web afterwards. You make it sound like Geddy is in cahoots with SRO. Who knows? Maybe he is. I certainly hope not and it makes me feel "bad" for having an occasional "good" time on the web. At the time when I heard the guy's question I thought, "How embarassing a question for Geddy or Alex to answer and HOW?" I thought the guy got cut off for a good reason since it wasn't the time or place for it (Although it SHOULD be addressed! But not by being ambushed on live radio--rediculous).

As for fans "boycotting" the DVD for all the "wars" on the net that the band hasn't addressed then that's their choice. I have friends who DON'T have computers and have enjoyed it regardless.

NPG, I have nothing but the utmost respect for you (and I still have your "Breary" wedding gift! hee hee) but I think this may be a bit myopic.

There are obviously ALOT of problems out there and that is soo sad. I can't begin to think what by-tor does to keep this site up but I don't think reading into a disgruntled fan's shennanigans too much is a good idea.

OK, I'm dumb, naive, silly, whatever. Flame away. But I love this site when I can get here. :)
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by-tor
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Post by by-tor » Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:31 pm

Kares4Rush wrote:Pardon my ignorance but who the hell is Bob Farmer? And why would he attempt to pull websites? I thought the government did that.
Mr. Farmer is a lawyer who represents Rush. I haven't had any issues with him in over 4 years now, but with all that has been going down lately, I can't say that I will be immune. I've been tailing my logs today, and someone from the law office he's associated with has been on this site. They don't have the authority to 'pull' my site (or any other sites) in so many words, but can bring massive legal action against site owners if they feel that they are being mis-represented.
Perhaps I'm hopelessly niave but why in the world would this site be in trouble for "whatever" reasons? The people here are benevolant and have alot of fun.
Well, I would like to believe that the enviroment here is more along the lines of what Rush would actually want. Free speech while respecting others. But the fact is that they (SRO) do not control this site, therefore they cannot control the image it presents of Rush....this in itself might be enough of a reason to come after me. I hope not, but I'm not so sure now a days.
If Rockline pulled someone with an "agenda" for the discussion that was in a cleverly "couched" question maybe they thought it wasn't appropriate.

In my opine by-tor had to pay for his arrogance when he had a legit question. I mean, really, how does one answer a question about being banned from websites? Geddy and Alex were there for the music and (yes) to promote the DVD.
It is my belief that the caller wasn't being arrogant, and had a legit question too. Their main goal might have been to promote the DVD, but Rockline is a show which allows fans to ask the band (just about) anything they want.
You make it sound like Geddy is in cahoots with SRO. Who knows? Maybe he is.
Not the word I would use, because I don't believe in some conspiracy theory, but Geddy, Alex and Neil pretty much ARE SRO.
There are obviously ALOT of problems out there and that is soo sad. I can't begin to think what by-tor does to keep this site up but I don't think reading into a disgruntled fan's shennanigans too much is a good idea.
If it were just one fan, I'd agree, but this problem has been growing for over a year now, as are the number of disgruntled and banned fans.
Don't tell me about rock and roll I'm out there in the clubs and on the streets and I'm living it! I am rock and roll!

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Kares4Rush
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Post by Kares4Rush » Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:08 pm

OK, by-tor. I guess I kinda knew when I was getting into that pukey rant that others would know a whole lot more than I would anyway.

For some reason it just felt good saying it, tho. I sincerely hope I didn't offend anyone (NPG espec) but lately I've gotten the most horrible e-mails and bad stuff about what's going on the net lately I guess I thought I could punch an air hole into it. Apparently not.

Thanks.

BTW, this site is still koo.
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Post by Aerosmitten » Thu Dec 11, 2003 11:41 pm

Smelly
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PV
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Post by PV » Fri Dec 12, 2003 7:46 am

Well said, F1. I've been thinking of how to respond to this thread and just couldn't seem to find the words. Thank you for finding them for me.

I hope it doesn't come to By-tor pulling the plug. I would miss my home away from home and all my friends here. :( However, I would understand and support that decision completely. And I'm sure that after a significant period of mourning, oh say 10 years :wink: , I'd pick up the pieces and move on. Then I'd have my 10 year old daughter design us a new site! :shock:

Thanks for all you do, By-tor, to keep our fun playground in the wacky world called life up and running. It is truly appreciated by us, and it is all about us after all. :wink:
I don't have faith in faith, I don't believe in belief, You can call me faithless, I still cling to hope, And I believe in love, And that's faith enough for me... Neil Peart

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Kares4Rush
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Post by Kares4Rush » Fri Dec 12, 2003 8:22 am

I agree, PV. I just can't imagine the scenario where someone would come after a site like this! It's full of such friendly people who, (of course) love the band.

Also, I know if anyone had a technical question about the band or it's history it would be answered immediatly by the knowledgable fans here. It's cool because people here don't feel they need to "Lord" their knowledge of Rush all the time and clog things up.

Again, I'm truly truly sorry for my angry and ignorant rant but as I said before I was getting all these icky e-mails from people trying to recruit me into a war that I don't want to partake in and I guess it spilled over.

Rush on for the Holidays, guys! :D
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Post by PV » Fri Dec 12, 2003 8:32 am

Kares4Rush wrote:IAgain, I'm truly truly sorry for my angry and ignorant rant but as I said before I was getting all these icky e-mails from people trying to recruit me into a war that I don't want to partake in and I guess it spilled over.

Rush on for the Holidays, guys! :D
Hey, not a problem Kares! :D The beauty of by-tor.com is you CAN come and rant! And then you get a hug and an "it's okay!"
I don't have faith in faith, I don't believe in belief, You can call me faithless, I still cling to hope, And I believe in love, And that's faith enough for me... Neil Peart

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Post by neilpeart_gal » Fri Dec 12, 2003 9:29 am

Kares, I have no beef with you for what you posted. You and I are friends, and will continue to be (I hope). I think you made some totally legitimate points. The web SHOULD be fun for Rush fans, that is why I started posting to begin with. That is what I have found here.

I post over at Counterparts because I am mad as hell at what has gone on with the official sites and they are on the front lines of doing something. But I agree, Kares, the board is not for everyone.

Of course you can't say 'whatever you want' on the internet and get away with it. No one expects the rules of decent behavior to be broken and go unpunished. HOWEVER, please explain my 'banning' to me. My crime was what, having a friend who got banned at .net? Or could it be that I stated here that I thought the rules at .net were heavy handed. Oooh now I'm a troll, now I'm the big bad wolf. I have violated what rule of conduct? Stating my opinion?? Yeah, I'm sure Rush would be against THAT...! :roll:

Would I have handled my chance to talk to Ged and Al on Rockline the way that Dan guy did? No. As mad as I am, I would not have mentioned it in that forum. But damn it, its about time we knew for sure if the band is aware of the tactics of their admin and their representation. Believe me when I say folks have tried for years to find out this same information through legitimate channels and to no avail. And now we know for sure from 10 seconds on a radio show. Sometimes desperation brings about poor decision making.

And I do NOT agree w/ the tactic of people emailing you and trying to 'recruit' you to their side of the board war, Kares. You have the right to post wherever the heck you desire and make up your own mind about things....OR choose to stay out of it all together. Its YOUR choice. I will never judge you simply based upon where you choose to post. If I did, then I would be guilty of the same crimes that Big Al is guilty of and frankly, I'd rather be shot than be in his same league.

It doesn't surprise me at all, By-tor, that Farmer and his guns have been looking here. After all, we wouldn't want to allow anything that might remotely look like free speech and free thought to occur on a site about Rush. Wouldn't that just be terrible?? :?

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Post by Draconator » Fri Dec 12, 2003 1:36 pm

I guess I should jump in here...

As many of you know, and as some of you may not, I am one of the co-administrators of Counterparts. Yes. CP is at the center of what is going on. No need to go further into that.

I just want to get some issues off my chest.

If anyone is contacting another member of another board, just to join "their side", that is just wrong. Rush fans should not be taking sides. Yet that is what we're supposed to do.

This whole issue is more about being banned. It's all the behind the scenes stuff that is making our blood boil. To give a short list of what I'm talking about...
  • Contacting Email providers saying that a user is spamming, when they are not.
    Contacting Internet Service Providers, saying that a member is guilty of violations of Terms of Service, when all they did was visit a site.
    Contacting Domain Administrators, saying that a domain holder is guilty of a violation of a term of service, when all they did was give a generic "General Deliverly" for safety's sake.
I could go on, but I won't. Maybe later.

It's all this kind of stuff that has the community in a uproar. When you see the other party guilty of using copyrighted images, when the other party has had various other websites closed, for using copyrighted images. It's hyprocritical, and just makes you angry. That is the kind of stuff that has us mad! :evil:

I'll close by pasting in here what a very close friend had to say. His name is Dan, and he is the one who asked the question to Geddy and Alex about the bannings at the official sites.
First of all, I want to set the record clear for those who don?t know anything about me, which is the vast majority of people across the Internet who have posted opinions about the question I asked on Rockline last night. I have not been banned at Rush.net, or at least I haven?t been up to this point. My RolltheBones21 account has been active there since the first day the board opened (my member number is something in the double digits). I have not been blocked from accessing RushinRio.com. I?ve never been banned from TN because I?ve never signed up there. Well, I did sign up under an alias once on TN just to post about how Trin was being treated unfairly and I got banned for that, but I deserved and expected to be banned so I had no problem with it.

So, given all this, why would I go on Rockline and ask about the bannings? I can tell you for certain it wasn?t to embarrass Alex and Geddy or to make them feel uncomfortable, although I did realize that by asking the question they probably would feel that way. I?ve been listening to them for over 20 years and I still consider myself a huge fan of their music. I was glad to ask them a question on Rockline in May of last year. I?m also looking forward to seeing them on their 30th anniversary tour next year, and I will have to rely on my memories of the 3 VT concerts I attended and the RIR DVD and CD I bought to hold me over until then. So, if I?m such a professed fan, why would I want to make them feel uncomfortable? If I haven?t been banned myself, why would I bother to ask them about it?

It has to do with treating people with respect. I?ve seen way too many Rush fans hurt by this board war nonsense over the past years, and in my mind there is no reason that this has to continue. The people who have been banned or shut out of the official sites are the same as Rush fans everywhere else. They?ve loved the band and have supported it for many years. But when some of them try to get answers as to why they were banned, they?re either ignored or given terse replies without any real substance. Since when is it necessary to ignore legitimate questions or belittle them with ?You know why you were banned? messages? How about showing a little human decency and letting people know the real answers to their questions? Rush was as big a part of their lives as it is to other Rush fans, and I can imagine how some of them felt after being told to get lost by representatives of the band they admired. Sure, some people were banned for obvious reasons by not following the posted terms of agreement. These people have no reason to gripe. But hundreds more fans have been cast out without truly knowing what they did wrong.

So what did I hope to gain by all this? I hoped that by throwing this question to them, it would make certain that they were aware of the growing issue that is being caused by some of their policies. And I also hoped it would start some honest discourse amongst all factions involved in this mess. A big part of the reason this has gone on for so long is that there has never been an honest attempt to get all parties involved together to discuss what could be done to stop the war and get back to sharing and promoting a common interest. Legal threats are thrown around when more would be accomplished by talking about these issues. Does anyone believe that the best way to solve a problem is to sweep it under the rug and never talk about it? Geddy and Alex are big boys, and I?m sure they?ve been asked harder questions than the one I posed last night. And although they?re freakishly talented musicians, I don?t think they should be held up on a pedestal and treated by me any differently than I would treat anyone else I needed to discuss an issue with. Whether they choose to address the issue in some manner now is in their court, but there can be no denying that they?ve been made aware that there is a problem.

And if anyone thinks that they?d be better off with getting rid of all the banned Rush fans who are just ?whiners and trolls? you?re wrong. How long do you think Rush will last with an eroding fan base? How many teenagers do you see listening to Rush for the first time because they heard a song on the radio? Do you think Rush is going to continue touring and putting out great albums if it isn?t profitable for them to do so? Many of the people being alienated right now are those that have spent a ton of money on Rush and would continue to do so if some of their policies were addressed. As much as Rush may appreciate their fans, I doubt they?d be touring to half empty arenas in the future. All Rush fans need each other.

I?m not a moron, and I?m certainly not a hero. I?m just a Rush fan who wants to see the problem addressed so we can all get back to enjoying the music of the world?s best band.

Dan
Personally, I would love nothing more than to see this whole board war end. It's going to be much more than just an agreement. When the other side is unwilling to sit down and get to a mutual resolution, just to keep power and control, makes things a bit difficult.

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Post by Draconator » Fri Dec 12, 2003 1:38 pm

Let me also add (I'm one with mental problems, as neilpeart_gal can attest too... :D ) that I fully support what by-tor.com is doing! We need a whole bunch of sites to keep the true spirit of Rush's lyrics alive!!!

Resist the temptation to close. If you close, the other side has another victory.

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Post by neilpeart_gal » Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:05 pm

Thanks so much for chiming in, Drac. 8)

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Post by by-tor » Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:32 pm

I've been doing this site for awhile now, and in the beginning, we (the Rush websites) were all one big community. We traded links, we had webrings, and most of the 'webmaster' communicated regularly via email. None of us were in this to make a buck; we did it because we wanted to honor Rush. The past two years, that has changed. There are far less fan sites, and those that are left, are pretty much out of touch with each other. I have nothing against an 'official' Rush site, but I do wish they would understand that the fan sites are not in competition with them. We serve the same purpose, and in the end, it means a larger, more knowledgable fan base.

I have plans to revive the webring (if I ever get around to writing the code), and hope to work with all the other fan sites, as well as the official site so that we can become a community once again. A few months back, on of the admins of a fan site contacted me about a possible contest....Was that you Draconator? I can't find the emails to save my life.
Don't tell me about rock and roll I'm out there in the clubs and on the streets and I'm living it! I am rock and roll!

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Post by Kares4Rush » Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:44 am

Lordy, how did all this negativity start? Wait. I don't think I really want to know.

I'm still relatively new to the online community and joined .net after my VT concerts last winter and got so excited about the info available there. I also met NPG, tdawn and a few others and am grateful. I had no idea such shite went down. Really. I guess ignorance is bliss and frankly being "de-flowered" isn't what it's cracked up to be.

I joined here last May, I think, kicking and screaming in shyness, by my pal NPG, and just loved it. When the creepies around other boards got too nasty for me I pulled back and may continue to do so as I have enough drama going on in my life anyway right now (not to impune ANYONE here with issues. I understand. But for survival's sake I just can't submit my psyche to it right now.).

I just love the band and their music so much and it fills me with joy that I can enter a site like this with people who feel the same. So few people in my life are such fans so it's great to have a place like this where you can let off steam and, yes, look a bit silly (Geddy's Hot!).

It may not mean much but just know I think y'all are great. I think the idea of a webring is so cool and hope it comes to pass soon.

Kares678 :)
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