PC Getting (even more) Out of Hand

Slaine mac Roth · Post by **Slaine mac Roth** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 6:49 pm

What the hell is going off in England today?

I don't know if many of you know, but the European Soccer Championships will be starting soon and, as with the World Cup 2 years ago, England have qualified. Once again, many people are showing their support for their national team by attatching St George's Flags to their cars.

However, I heard on the news recently that a firm has banned their employees from doing so in the company carpark "in case it offends any ethnic minorities in the area". This ignores the fact that the self-same local minorities are allowed to display their own national flags if they wish and think it is a good thing when the English do the same.

This follows on from a local council employee, somewhere in the South of England, who was told remove a pen tidy from his desk as it featured the St George's Flag and could be seen by anyone walking down the street (the newspaper reported that it would be necessary to stand on tip-toe and crane one's neck to do so) and could offence.

What I would like to know is why an English person is not permitted to display their national flag when those of other nations are?

How long is it going to be before its a crime to do this?

How long before they make it a crime to be English?

I am proud to be English (I bought flags for myself and my son today). In addition, I also take pride in my Scottish and Italian heritage and no-one is going to stop me from doing so.

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:11 pm

The US Olympic Committee (sp?) recently started stating that Olympic athletes wouldn't be allowed to wave the US flag in Athens in the upcoming games because of the message it might send. *sigh*

Fortunately they got so many angry letter and e-mails (even one from me) that within a couple of dyas they released a statement saying that they would NEVER tell the athletes such a thing and OF COURSE they can wave their flags. Sheesh!

*Lifesonite · Post by *Lifesonite » Sat Jun 05, 2004 10:39 pm

Damn, everyone else is waving their flag! What do they expect?

Next thing you know we'll be hanging out with Kenya at the olympics and then they won't question our flag waving!

Slaine mac Roth · Post by **Slaine mac Roth** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 12:51 am

The big difference between England and America is that, as far as I'm aware, you are encouraged to fly the American Flag, as are most other nations. As I said, they are trying to do everything they can to supress the England flag here. Funny how that doesn't extend to Scotland or Wales though.

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 8:14 am

Slaine mac Roth wrote:The big difference between England and America is that, as far as I'm aware, you are encouraged to fly the American Flag, as are most other nations. As I said, they are trying to do everything they can to supress the England flag here. Funny how that doesn't extend to Scotland or Wales though.

There's a growing division about that. Certain groups who are getting louder as time passes are ashamed of us showing patriotism through acts like flying the flag. I think we're on the same path... just a couple of years behind you.

And yes, those same groups are delighted when any other flag is flown on our soil. It's just our own that they don't want to see.

by-tor · Post by **by-tor** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 8:22 am

My wife and I have had a few talks about the American flag from time to time. She was/is amazed at how many people fly the flag here. She said that to see a Canadian flag flying on someone's private property is a rare thing...that the Canadian flag to them is more of a display of, "I'm proud to be Canadian". I've explained to her that the U.S. flag represents not only our country, but (and probably more importantly) the people who paid the ultimate price to keep this country free. The U.S. flag is so deeply rooted in our history and song, that I don't ever think we'll see a time in this country that those who are ashamed of it are more than a small minority. Most of the people in this country, no matter the side of the political fence they stand on, agree that the flag is America.

Devil's Advocate · Post by **Devil's Advocate** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 11:27 am

Slaine mac Roth wrote:The big difference between England and America is that, as far as I'm aware, you are encouraged to fly the American Flag, as are most other nations. As I said, they are trying to do everything they can to supress the England flag here. Funny how that doesn't extend to Scotland or Wales though.

It's because the English flag, even more than the Union Jack, has been co-opted by nationalist/racist organisations such as the national front and the BNP. And it's associated with football hooligans.

ElfDude wrote:The US Olympic Committee (sp?) recently started stating that Olympic athletes wouldn't be allowed to wave the US flag in Athens in the upcoming games because of the message it might send. *sigh*

Ummm. In the light af what you say their response to the angry letters was, I wonder: is this actually true? Have you checked with snopes.com?

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 2:17 pm

Devil's Advocate wrote:Ummm. In the light af what you say their response to the angry letters was, I wonder: is this actually true? Have you checked with snopes.com?

I didn't have to. I read the article in the Boston Globe where they first started talking about flag waving sending the wrong message. Public outcry hit them in the face and they did a 180.

Slaine mac Roth · Post by **Slaine mac Roth** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 3:49 pm

Devil's Advocate wrote:
Slaine mac Roth wrote:The big difference between England and America is that, as far as I'm aware, you are encouraged to fly the American Flag, as are most other nations. As I said, they are trying to do everything they can to supress the England flag here. Funny how that doesn't extend to Scotland or Wales though.
It's because the English flag, even more than the Union Jack, has been co-opted by nationalist/racist organisations such as the national front and the BNP. And it's associated with football hooligans.

In that case, I think it is time for the ordinary Englishman (or woman) to take it back. I hope I have made a start on this with my three year old son after buying him an England flag on Saturday. At the same time, I bought myself one and will soon be attatching it to the outside of the house. However, unlike the majority that are being displayed at the moment, it will not be coming down after Euro 2004 but will be joined, on the opposite side of the front door, by the Scottish flag, in honour of the Scottish heritage shared by both my wife and myself. These could well be joined soon by the Italian Flag (from my maternal grandmother) and the Dutch Flag (her family do appear to have Dutch roots.)

ElfDude · Post by **ElfDude** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 3:55 pm

I have lots of Scottish heritage... will you send me a flag too?

schuette · Post by **schuette** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:57 am

In England you should be able to fly the St Georges cross.........it's terrible that you cant! A couple of months ago a guy paid to get his satellite dish painted with the saltire and the council told him to take it down or face getting charged, he refused and after a while the council relented and let him keep his painted dish.
The saltire gets flown quite a bit here but not in residential houses more the pubs and companys.

Slaine mac Roth · Post by **Slaine mac Roth** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 9:43 am

Have you heard the latest inspired genius thought from our fantastically wonderful Labour Government

They're trying to block plans for a big event to celebrate the 400th Anniversary of the Gunpowder plot as it may offend Catholics.

Its as bad as one of the London Councils who tried to get British Rail to take down their Christmas Decorations a few years ago on the grounds that it could offend Muslims.

awip2062 · Post by **awip2062** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:20 pm

I hate this PC grabage, which is all this stuff is.

Slaine, I am proud of you teaching your son to be proud of his heritage and of his flag. I teach my kids the same thing.

By-Tor is right. Our flag represents so much more to me than the government. If it only represented the government, I would not care for it. But when I look at my flag, it reminds me of those who died and those who were willing to die and put themselves in harms way for me and my freedom. We fly the flag regularly and make sure that it goes down to half-staff when it should as well. I think no one should be banned from flying the flag of their nation in their own nation, and if the government says I must stop then I won't.

Here in the Washington, we can't have Christmas decorations other than Santa Claus and Reindeer and the like in case it offends other religions. I tell you, the constitution does not say freedom FROM religion, but freedom OF religion. It doesn't say anywhere that a citizen has a right to go through life never seeing a trace of anyone else's religion either. What I want to know is, how is seeing evidence of someone else's religion offensive?

Slaine mac Roth · Post by **Slaine mac Roth** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:24 pm

awip2062 wrote:I hate this PC grabage, which is all this stuff is.

Slaine, I am proud of you teaching your son to be proud of his heritage and of his flag. I teach my kids the same thing.

By-Tor is right. Our flag represents so much more to me than the government. If it only represented the government, I would not care for it. But when I look at my flag, it reminds me of those who died and those who were willing to die and put themselves in harms way for me and my freedom. We fly the flag regularly and make sure that it goes down to half-staff when it should as well. I think no one should be banned from flying the flag of their nation in their own nation, and if the government says I must stop then I won't.

The sad thing is that our government no longer represents our flag, in fact it does does everything it can to shut it away.

Today, I finally got around to putting up the England flag outside my house. At the moment, there are many of them on display because of the upcoming European Championships, which England are taking part in. Sadly, a good 99.99% will be taken down once England's participation in the tournament has ended.

However, mine will remain up as I javen't raised it to show support for the Football team, but for the nation in general. I have put it up in honour of people like Shakespeare, Isaac Newton, JRR Tolkien, Stephen Hawking, Thomas Hobbes, Winston Churchill, Siegried Sassoon and many others.

awip2062 wrote:Here in the Washington, we can't have Christmas decorations other than Santa Claus and Reindeer and the like in case it offends other religions. I tell you, the constitution does not say freedom FROM religion, but freedom OF religion. It doesn't say anywhere that a citizen has a right to go through life never seeing a trace of anyone else's religion either. What I want to know is, how is seeing evidence of someone else's religion offensive?

I know its a controversial comment, but there are times when I think the world would be a better place if it was free from religion.

By the way, I'm not an atheist. I am what I like to call an 'apathnostic' (apathetic agnostic). Thismeans I don't know if god exists, but I can't be bothered to find out and don't really care.

*Lifesonite · Post by *Lifesonite » Mon Jun 07, 2004 2:52 pm

Well, the world could certainly be improved if there wasn't the clash of religion, but that isn't the fault of religion, the people need to change for the better rather than just remove the things that some of us cannot cope with. Religion has done many good things for the world but many bad things have been done in the name of religion, but that is the fault of people and not religion.

I don't think religion is going anywhere any time soon. It has been proven that it's necessary for cultures to have religion seeing that all culture's have some form of belief structure.

Yes, the world could be better without some of the foolery and bigotry done because of differing beliefs or a lack of understanding of their own personal 'beliefs'. I would rather have people be more accepting of one another than religion having never existed.